greatwhite

But still no definitive answer, no substance, just: yes they are better from those that already have the latest bling. When I have killed my current tyres then I'll consider it in the mean time snot tubes and liners will suffice even though there is a clear weight penalty. How much does it cost to do a convertion (incl the hidden costs) anyway?

FYI - tomorrow junkmail http://www.junkmail.co.za/content/PvtIcon.gifFor Sale http://www.junkmail.co.za/content/region1.gif JohannesburgSting Ray Chopper Schwinn: Black and red, Springer fork, thick back wheel, disc brake, great cond. Can email pics. Sandringham R 3500 083-XXX-XXXX http://www.junkmail.co.za/content/delad.gif

Ditto, caught them and had a chat with them for a few minutes on a flat and down hill (they aren't that slow on the downhills) while waiting for some friends.

1. Fulcrum (read Campagnolo) state in their operating and maintenence instructions for Fulcrum Zero wheels (which are similar in a great many ways to Ksyrium SLs) that you should put a certain grade of loctite on the aluminium spoke thread - this might be to help in part deal with galling/seizing. 2. Although I personally believe the aluminium spoke is not ideal engineering practice for a number of reasons, the Ksyrium SL isn't an especially bad wheel other than this - but they have so many on the road, the number of folks with failures is bound to be high - I speculate the Sys-R wheels will have similar rim failures and sooner as will most other aluminium rim wheels in the sub 1.6kg catagory - the lighter the more rapid the rim failure. I expect the XTR wheels JB holds in such high regard to also have rim failure eventually too. BTW GoLefty: I've killed 4 mavic open pro SUP rims with fatigue cracks just like these (along with many other rims), so don't get too excited about them either. 3. When I saw JB a few weeks back, he gave me a strange look when I said my view on most high performance parts was that they were sacraficial. Engineering obselensce into a product is common in many industries, not just mavic or cycling. Longevity if often sacrificed to achieve lighter/faster etc. Extreme eg FIA F1 engines have only to last 2 races (and even that only because the FIA were trying to stop the upward spiral of cost of new motor per race), but they are able to achieve huge power and minimal weight. Market pressure in many sector also means many manufacturers make smaller products running at higher speeds to make a more cost effective option, but they know it will fail sooner - it a achieves 2 things a) they get the initial sale & b) they get to sell more (spares or completer replacement units) later which is when they really score. The best case of true planned obselescence I've seen is printer cartridges that have a chip in them to tell the unit to stop working after 50000 prints or 3 years which ever comes 1st. 4. Propriatory parts and the captive market: also common. Again look at the motor industry - many parts can only be bought from the dealership and the are very expensive. I have no idea what the number is now, but about 10 years ago, if you built a car from spares it would cost you 8-10 time the price of the complete new car. My gut feel is that now that number is higher.

Guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder, 'cause to me that yeti is a fugly as the gruesom 4some in speedi's 2nd post

Any one considered the mechanical aspects? Compact is lighter - smaller sprocket, chainrings and shorter chain, but longevity is reduced because forces are increased and there are less teeth to take the increased forces If you're strong and have no bucks, std is the way to go. If you are not so strong and you have excess cash for spares, then compact is the way to go

Eldron, this is getting out of hand (or in?) - no wacking anybodies jobby on the hub....

Thanks Johan, I'm aware of that. The centre to centre distance between sprockets largely determines the maximum outside width of the chain - what I was addressing was that some sprockets are themselves different thicknesses - this would determine the inside width required of the chain - as it would happen, shimano 8 and 9 speed sprockets are 1.8mm and 1.78mm thk respectively - 0.02mm is unlikely the cause of the problem. e.g. an extreme situation: an old suntour 8 speed has 2mm thk sprockets and new shimano 10 speed is only made to accomodate a 1.6thk sprockets - problem....

Just checked: both 8 and 9 speed shimano use 1.8 thk sprockets, so 8 speed cluster with 9 speed chain shouldn't be a problem. I does concern me that your derailleur wheels needed to be replace so soon. Have you had a crash that your derailleur or hanger are bent?

Yes and no - cleaning the crap out is defininately the 1st step, but assuming there will always be some residual junk, the harder the force on the chain, the more the grinding effect there will be.

be interesting to see how the new 7900 crank stacks up against the others since it is supposedly ligher and stiffer than its predesessor tested here.

Oiltrash: Is this the bike? http://www.bikebay.co.za/Products/ProductProfile.aspx?ProdGuid=5992f62c-a6c5-4b3b-9c44-81eb01235950 just check what the crank length is on the bike, because DA wasn't an original fit on the bike - my guess the bike was bought to take a 10 speed ultegra off and fit a 9 speed DA (mever mind that the second hand DA will outlast the new ultegra stuff easily) turtlek: yep the 9 speed 7700 series was seriouly robust stuff - did 50000km on my group. Changed some chains, a few clusters, 1 big blade at about 45000km..... and some break pads. Everything else just kept on going. If my 10 speed DA lasts that well, I'll be very happy

I did, thanks

I think the CN-HG53 chain is a 9 speed chain - Sora is 8 speed. That might be part of the problem. Is the sound continous?

Any reason why radial spoking is not an option? I intend to use a PRO (shimano) R-50 rim (similar to a Mavic Open Pro in section, but a little heavier) because I have the rim lying around - that should be shallow enough surely

Depends how often you want to replace chainrings and clusters. If you ride hard throwing a chain away after 5000km is a good idea - fairly regular chain changes (which are cheap) will reduce the frequency of replacing chainrings and clusters (which are expensive). You will also find that new chains will jump and generally cause nonsense when fitted to a cluster that has previously been used with a well streched chain, forcing you replace the cluster anyway - so, if in doubt change the chain.

I saw a couple too - stopped (or slowed down at least) and had a chat with them about the bikes they did tell me where they got them too, but it appears I am getting old and my memory is fading :-( I seem to recall they were an american brand - schwinn or the like

BBB or PRO (shimano). BBB is a bit cheaper, but not by a whole pile. both decent (and so they should be for that price for a mickey mouse torque wrench). Also you can get other 1/4" drive units on ebay etc for less, but no idea on quality.

There are a few manufacturers who make 'shimano' style cassettes to fit on campy free hubs and vice versa. Most hub manufacturers make shimano and campy free wheel mechanisms to fit on their hubs - just take one the shimano one off and put a campy one on. Notably hubs made by shimano hubs don't have a campag option, but some hubs made by campag do have an option to use shimano in the form a Fulcrum shimano freewheel mech (Fulcrum is owned by campag and as such use a lot of the same parts - notably incl freewheels)

Shimano relaeased a new dynamo fron hub recently which weighs under 500g and spec level equal to XT/Ultegra. Now a normal front hub is about 150g and a battery can easily weigh 350g too. Also the conveinience of not having to mess around with battery charger before training rides appeals to me and with modern LED systems the Dynamo can provide ample light at low 'drag'/power draw. Anyone had experince with such a system? Can anyone add useful comments.

Gooooo Lefty!!

I did a bit of research a few months back on LED options - all I could find locally at the time were units with 12 or 20 lower power LED in them - the performance of these was poor at best. I did find that in US/Europe/The far East you could get high power single LED units up to 10w (equivelent light output to 70w conventional), but they are expensive and you would have to bring them in yourself. Still the power saving is meainingful when you have a room with 20 down lighters, you can reduce power consumption from 1kw to 200w (1/5th) and still get a 40% light increase! Give it a year or 2 and these will be common place. For a more bike appropriate MR16 (12V) 5w see: http://cgi.ebay.com/1-2-Off-LED-MR16s-5W-12V-w-3-CREE-LEDs-Bright-White_W0QQitemZ290252917635QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item290252917635&_trkparms=72%3A1073%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Dual control takes a little while to get used to, but once you've got your head around it, IMO its a better system. I was the same as HR, I thought rapid fire was the way to go when I first used dual control, but once I had adapted, I saw the light. The new XT and XTR are also a step up on their predecessors, because the lever is better positioned too. Go for XTR levers rather its a whole lot lighter and not that much more

MTBKing81: If you decide not to take them, please let your friend know he has a buyer (ME) - thanks