My point was when he gets a shot to let him open and not play at 7. If the guys score runs there is no need to change them but how long do you persist? Then do you rather get some young raw talent or someone (older more experienced) else who has 2 seasons tops. Might be an ideal opportunity to learn from Smith and intergrate him into our squad which consists of a lot of older players now. Abbot is a great bowler who would probably walk into a lot of other international teams. I would pick him over Kleinveld
Who knew an hour client meeting would result in this ... Going back to the earlier discussion - would these be the ideal time for QDK to bat to the people suggesting he bat 7?
Yip - rich people problems with the talent we have. QDK could play as a specialist batter imo I saw some comments earlier from Indian fans saying things like - why can they have our second string - Tsotsobe, de Lange, Abbot et al.
SA looking very solid at the moment (via text scoring) I had some concerns the wicket might have been doing a lot after we got 5 wickets so quickly. Must have been a mix of bad batting and good bowling
For what it is worth ..... read the discussion before commenting. Yes Puttick is a great player but he is not 21 and doesn't have 15 years ahead of him. and btw he is not good enough to be a test keeper yet
Ill bet you 5 cents (your monthly budget) he gets into the test team before that lot. If you bothered to reach we were talking about him as just a batsmen at this stage with AB still keeping the gloves Graeme Smith opened the batting at 21 with less first class experience behind him but I guess that was a dof move to - neh? The experience probably made him one of the toughest batsmen in the game today
Sewhag made his test debut within months of his ODI debut (he was dropped for some times) - by his 5th innings (tests) he was opening. Gilcrest was a lower order batsmen who was promoted later in his career not an open bat made to play down the order Batting down the order is not a freedom position - it is normally the person who has to get you out of the poo more often than coming in with freedom. If a number 7 comes in with freedom you would have over 450 on the board - he wouldn't even get to bat for 2 hours. The situation of a collapse is where I feel we need a solid Dhoni/Boucher type player at 7 who can work with the tail enders . He can learn the role he will hopefully fulfill for the next 10 years. He will be a keeper and batman so will not fill the opener roll in his career in test Why not? 2. We need an opening bat (Smith 32/Alviro 31) They have 4 years left in them hopefully Petersen will be lucky to have a season in him. Smith is not fit enough to last another 4 years. 3. He is proven upfront and unproven against spin (that quality spin - not the rubbish he faces in the sunfoil series) He is not proven in test same applies to the 7 role in test. At least he has had success as an opener and no experience (even domestic level) at 7 4. The pressure situation of being 5 or 6 down with 180 on the board if far greater than the freedom when no wickets are down The pressure of opening is far greater especially if you not making runs. We can agree to disagree. He is at least used to the pressures of opening and has no experience (even school level at 7) 5. He might get discouraged Same point as above 6. Amla might have to open, thus exposing him to the new ball Amla has opened in tests a few times and done fairly well Go on tell me about how great he was in his first spell in the test team 7. You shuffle the whole order to bat an open later? Its like playing Jean de Villiers on the wing Like I said I would drop Faf therefore no shuffle. You just spoke about Amla opening? I did say on the assumption that Petersen loses his place. If Faf goes he can bat 3
He batted at 1, 3, 4, 5,6,7 and 8 in tests We also don't play all our games in SA Anyways plenty other examples of offensive opening bats like you mentioned above. You could add our own Hercelle Gibbs to the list. If one of those guys gets going the game is over in two sessions
I also think the wicketkeeper position has changed over the last few years. Previously they had to be good glove men who could bat a bit - now they are expected to being excellent batsmen who can keep wicket
Based on what evidence? The evidence so far say he does pretty well against the new ball. He opening the batting very regularly. If he bats 7 then Amla and AB come in earlier QDK has been around more than this season and has a best score of 194 in first class First-class 18 31 4 1504 194 55.70 1755 85.69 4 8 177 31 70 5 List A 50 48 0 1724 135 35.91 1881 91.65 5 5 176 28 58 6 Would you consider Warner (leading runs scorer in the Ashes) defensive? Dilshan - defensive?
So the only example is a player with 3 tests behind him? I think there are far more examples of players doing well playing their natural positions/game. I understand Kelper et al know far more than me but not everything they say is golden (else he would still be the batting consultant neh?) I didn't say he was a bigger talent - I asked your opinion on it. I was also not comparing current Smith but Smith at 21 - remember the guy who couldn't get into the Lions team and had to come to CPT to get a bat? He was given the opportunity to play his natural game upfront. He is not taking the gloves for some time so it is a non issue at this point if he is being selected as a batter. I will give you my reasons for playing him in his rightful position 1. He can learn the role he will hopefully fulfill for the next 10 years. 2. We need an opening bat (Smith 32/Alviro 31) 3. He is proven upfront and unproven against spin (that quality spin - not the rubbish he faces in the sunfoil series) 4. The pressure situation of being 5 or 6 down with 180 on the board if far greater than the freedom when no wickets are down 5. He might get discouraged 6. Amla might have to open, thus exposing him to the new ball 7. You shuffle the whole order to bat an open later? Its like playing Jean de Villiers on the wing
Go on .... Can you give me examples of other openers starting their careers at 7 - especially after 4 centuries at international level. Also a number 7 would need to play spin very very well, especially if you team are 5 down for 180. Who would open (on the assumption Petersen vacates his spot) Would you consider QDK to be a bigger talent than Smith? Smith also debuted at 21 from Wiki Smith made his Test debut for South Africa in 2002 in Cape Town against Australia, batting at number three and scoring 68 in the second innings.[23] Promoted to open the batting with Herschelle Gibbs against Bangladesh in his third Test match, Smith scored 200.[24] In the following home series against Pakistan, Smith (who scored 151) and Gibbs (228) shared a first-wicket stand of 368
Peterson out for 21 .... Another reason I would pick QDK to open is that if you pick him at 7 you will need to move other people from their natural positions
from ESPN cricket info A big session coming up for Alviro Petersen who has had a lean run in recent Tests: 26, 17, 3, 10, 1, 17, 27, 20, 21 are is previous nine scores.
No one is saying he should be dropped just like that but his last couple of innings have been poor. He is not young anymore and now would be an ideal time to blood a youngster in - we are on top and winning and it is a lot easier to include a person here or there as opposed to when you are down and out. Can I ask you rationale about him coming in at 7? Do you think he will bat well with the tail? Does he have a great record against spin that im unaware of? At this stage AB will still keep so he wont have dual roles. Taking the shine off the ball is not the only duty of an open. I think the bowling attack of an international attack is far superior to the people he is facing at local level currently. I never understand the mentality in SA sport sometimes - same as the boks playing people out of place - moving our 2nd best centre to wing ahead of countless great wingers for example.
Alviro hasn't got many scores for some time - I think QDK should learn to play his natural role up front. To much pressure if SA are 4 or 5 down for 180. I don't think he is that type of batsmen who can work with tailenders and help the tail wag.
So happy with the boys this morning, India had a chance to take this game away from us. Now we just need to bad out the first hour or two with some caution against a swinging ball and pile on the runs!!!!! A little concerned our opens havnt seen much action lately
India looking in the better position - if they bat out another session or two it will be difficult for us to win this one ..... SA looked out of ideas when they didn't get the early break through and the spinner provided no backup
