bustthesickness

so get over it. just because you THINK the rule is that descenders must yield doesnt mean it IS the rule. The day that all of our whims become rules is the day I'll give a rats @$$ about what other people expect. Seriously dude, you know how many times I go to Tokai and see idiots without helmets on. So much for rules. I'm certainly not going to slow down for an ascender. It takes a lot of slogging to get up a hill and I'm not going to move, and I refuse to say "Hi" to you either, so get over it and harden up.

I think as long as people dont put bar ends on their riser bars, this forum can remain in the lame state it's in. ooh...*mini hijack on: what did your moms have for dinner last night. oooooh *min hijack off.

So after AAAAAAAAAAALL that, KDEE agrees that DESCENDERS HAVE RIGHT OF WAY. go figure. My response to the rest of your Dave the Tonto speech is this:

yeah... 4 x 'Moondrops' and 1 x Lalique for men. It's gonna smell like Oriental plaza dude.

Me too! If you ever smell 'Lalique for men' you'll know I was there (or KDEE) brokeback mountain biking? hahaha!

Me too! If you ever smell 'Lalique for men' you'll know I was there (or KDEE)

hahaha, I like all your thinking. especially Mellow. That scenario you described is EXACTLY why DESCENDERS HAVE RIGHT OF WAY. The irony of KDEE's little "I'm so superior" rant is that he is actually showing himself to be 'Mr.Cool' with all the hard and fast RULES. A right Tonto at the other end of those posts. Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Leave the jokes to Barry Hilton dude, and even HE sucks donkey nuts....

Thanks KDEE, it will be nice if you can do that. Always remember to YIELD FOR THE DESCENDER. It's the polite thing to do. Tell all your Jozi chaanas too now ya hear?!

So basically everybody needs to adjust to the way YOU ride so YOU can have the best time? My advice to YOU is this: less "I'm a way cool like totally rad downhiller dude" and more "team player"... Use it - don't use it... YES oooh, management talk...I LIKE IT!!! Nope, I'm not team player.

Maybe he's seen the way you treat ascending riders? ROFLMAO

BFS! This has been asked before... Ascending rider (any vehicle actually) has right of way. Descending rider can restart a lot easier than bicycle ascending. Common courtesy indicates that the rider having the most difficult ride gets right of way. Nice language Dave. Sorry, I don't conform to IMBA rules. It's all too often people quote 'American World Standards' as their own. These might be YOUR rules, but I'll tell ya what, next rider who comes blazing down a singletrack, do your thing, dont move for him. Please post the photos of your smashed bike for us DESCENDING RIDER HAS RIGHT OF WAY - END OF STORY

something I'd like to add: guys coming up on riders from the rear NEED TO HAVE RESPECT AND PATIENCE. It's NOT a race. Some sections of trail have multi technical level bits. I was at Tokai the other day coasting through a section lining up for a nice drop when some lycra clad TONTO comes screaming up behind me to take the easy line. He totally stuffed up my run. Next time I wont let it slide.

ascending rider should move out of the way.

yip, that sounds like a fake drive to me eh. AFAIK, flash drives max out at 64 gigs.

If the goal is FR/AM type riding' date=' then the Teocali for sure. BUT, for a beginner a hardtail may be better to learn on. If you can do the technical stuff on a hardtail properly first, you'll be much better off. [/quote'] The Teocali is 'All Mountain'. NOT 'FR/Freeride. I think guys are constantly getting these two terms confused. I for one wouldnt like to take a burly 2 meter drop off on a Teocali. The entire bike is specc'd for as an AM bike, from the Pike/Fox forks to the MC rear shock. Habib, it's a pity you didnt buy that Teocali. It would have been a really good starting point. The myth that it's better to start out on a hardtail to "learn on" is just that, a myth, and I for one wish that Mythbusters would do an episode on this. Bike skills are bike skills, comfort is all you'll be without now. A full-suss bike has got much more traction on hills, your center of gravity is lower as you tend to sit a LOT more. The Teocali would have given you a good base to build from, as it's light enough to take on hills, strong enough to do moderate drops, burly rock gardens, sling it onto your back and portage it, technical singletracks, the lot. It's always the problem with forums, you'd have been better off reading the reviews on both bikes in www.mtbr.com (and I know I'm being a hypocrite by saying this, but feel I have a valid opinion since I own the bike you asked about) Good Morning bustthesickness I absolutly and totally appreciate everyones opinions and you are very right in saying asking a question like this on a forum is also not the best thing to do as everyone has such vast & different opinions. I did also look into the revies section and well to be honest you get a similar results out of that, I say this due to the fact on the reviews section you still have the guys who really like the product and there are the other guys who really dont. I did get to take the whole review thing one step further though, and did not base my entire decision on the forums the way I did it I was lucky enough to get the oppertunity to ride a soft tail and a hard tail on a course with single track technical some decent accents and really fun decents (not sure if you know of the tracks at Rietvlei Zoo Farm) And this is where I finally made my decission the ride on the soft tail was absolulty amaizing it was so smooth and well very very easy to forget you traveling at high speed on a rocky decending terrain. and for me that was the big thing I relly enjoyed the way the hardtail threw me around i like the mission to have to fight the bike to stay on track just makes for a more exciting ride for ME. Other then that I have also now got really good components and shocks etc... so in 1 year from now if I am propper bored with the hard tail I can look at buying a decent soft tail frame and put my components on. I hope you see my opinion on why I went the way I did. either way the ride for me was fun. Habib ??? each to their own

If the goal is FR/AM type riding' date=' then the Teocali for sure. BUT, for a beginner a hardtail may be better to learn on. If you can do the technical stuff on a hardtail properly first, you'll be much better off. [/quote'] The Teocali is 'All Mountain'. NOT 'FR/Freeride. I think guys are constantly getting these two terms confused. I for one wouldnt like to take a burly 2 meter drop off on a Teocali. The entire bike is specc'd for as an AM bike, from the Pike/Fox forks to the MC rear shock. Habib, it's a pity you didnt buy that Teocali. It would have been a really good starting point. The myth that it's better to start out on a hardtail to "learn on" is just that, a myth, and I for one wish that Mythbusters would do an episode on this. Bike skills are bike skills, comfort is all you'll be without now. A full-suss bike has got much more traction on hills, your center of gravity is lower as you tend to sit a LOT more. The Teocali would have given you a good base to build from, as it's light enough to take on hills, strong enough to do moderate drops, burly rock gardens, sling it onto your back and portage it, technical singletracks, the lot. It's always the problem with forums, you'd have been better off reading the reviews on both bikes in www.mtbr.com (and I know I'm being a hypocrite by saying this, but feel I have a valid opinion since I own the bike you asked about)

How very sarcastic of you RodTi. Thank you. You're very sweet. Let me guess that you have bar ends on your riser bars? Uhhhm - nope. They looked reallllllllll fugly on my ride. Purple ones perhaps? Uhhhmm nope. But back in the day, purple bull-horns (not bar-ends) were the sizzle... But then, you might not agree with that... Oh wait - do I care? Here are a couple of reasons why you SHOULDNT have bar ends on your risers: [Can't wait.] 1) The angle of the riser bars is not straight like XC flat bars. [One point.] Typically riser bars angle upward and inward. [One point.] By putting bar ends onto your risers, you end up with bar ends sticking outwards like great big hooks to hook onto branches and newbies. [-2 points.] [Dude. Seriously. When was the last time you had a look at bar-ends? They don't point outwards - they are specifically designed to point inwards, or else, you'd "hook onto branches and newbies..." Their design used to be rather more hazardous - but again, that was back in the day - when trail/singletrack riding was less 'claustrophobic'. Of course, some say, that riding through a narrow trail with bar-ends, takes more skill....] Normally, riser bars are left wide. [1/2 point.] [Or, if you don't like them wide - you could cut them back (*gasp*)...] Usually, the are around 650mm and upwards. [Yes] This, believe it or not [Ripley], provides extra leverage when cornering in technical terrain, as well as extra balance when doing nice big airs and drop-offs. [Really? Yes? Altenatively: "well, doh".] Add to this now your [mine, yours, everybody] purple bar ends [or purple bull horns - see above] sticking out at an angle [see above], and you might end up with needing to cut the trails wider, or even build bridges that are 3 meters wide [Tokai?] so you and your bars can get through. But of course - where have you been? Surely, on your all-mountain sojourns, you must have bumped into those crazy purple bar-end/bull-horn fiends, carrying their battery-operated chainsaws back into the bush/trail/forest to go and cut-back on that pestilential trail that tried to rip their beloved purple bar-ends/horns off their trusty steeds??? This brings me to my second point... [oh goody! ] 2) Usually riser bars are put onto the relaxed angled all mountain type setup. [so putting them on XC rides is ok? Or only if done, 'un'-usually so?] Us all mountain riders [so you're an 'all mountain rider', huh? Wow. Awesome. Respect.] are not usually so hung up on bending the cranks up hills, with the need for so much extra leverage that these purple bar ends of yours so suitably supply. [so you assume, firstly, that I've got purple bar-ends/horns, secondly, that I'm not one of your all-mountain types, thirdly, that if I were, I wouldn't be hung up on climbing and lastly, even if I were - I wouldn't want extra leverage... Goodness - you must read minds... ] 3) The kinds of folks who retro-fit all mountain type riser bars to a XC designed flat bar bike are in denial [Really? That's a pretty meaty statement. Would love to hear how you got to this conclusion], and secretly wish they'd bought a bike made for having fun, and not one made for having "minimum rolling resistance". [Whilst not wishing to speak on behalf of the "others" - here's a thought - maybe other people don't fit into your little neat categorisation of what mtb'ing is all about - maybe some people have 'fun' on a "minimum-rolling resistance" XC bike, doing stuff you all-mountain riders do... Maybe they do a bit of both, and don't see the need to have 2 bikes for 2 different styles of riding. I'd want to say it's pretty presumptious of you to suggest that a XC rider with a riser bar is clearly a denialist who wishes with all his heart he'd bought a 'fun' all-mountain bike so that he could thrash around with it - but then, maybe I'd come across as being sarcastic...] 4) Bar ends on riser bars make quite nasty puncture holes in torsos and if they dont hook up on a branch, will leave you wishing you'd not done the Fairy trail when the bridge was wet, leading to you slipping and the bar ends ending up in your chest. [Dude. "Puncture holes in torsos?" Really? You do know that we're talking about bar-ends - and that 'bull-horns' don't actually mean sharp, pointy, horns.... You appear to be a person prone to falling on your handlebars. Maybe you should consider switching to XC to improve your skills (even though, you'd have to buy a XC bike to do that) - before returning to all-mountain... Wait. I've just read what you wrote again - did you actually slip on a wet bridge and impale your torso on your bar-ends? Hectic. No disrespect - but do you have photos? How deep were you impaled? And what does having bar-ends on your ride have anything to do with slipping on a wet bridge? And what, in the name of all that is holy, were you doing with bar-ends on your bike? ] 5) They look very silly, especially if you choose purple ones. [ok ok ok. Would you prefer pink? Maybe fuschia?] 6) Bar ends on risers only really look good if you have the matching 'BOY' or 'Tonto' metal plate style cap, to wear afterwards along with some really neat Buffalo raver boots and a t-shirt from Mr.Price or Billabong. [You appear to know wayyyyy more about the particular style required than is safe - I'll just leave this one as is....] 7) Bar ends on risers should only ever be used if you're the kind of person who can't take a joke, in which case, after the flaming you'll send my way for this, will let us know the status. [Oh touche. Velly velly clever Peter for dropping this little gem in here... Be that as it may, from the ribbing you suggest a rider would get for putting bar-ends on a riser bar - never mind purple horns - I'd suggest one would have to be pretty good at taking a joke... Unless one would simply decide to wave the fat-two-fingered-salute at the very ethereal b-sh*t surrounding our obsession, as initially suggested...] Oh, no, wait...you can have different hand positions if you use bar ends? ["Yes You CAN..."] Awesome, I've been dying to have my hands far from the brakes [Ok. Try sitting on them. ] Which bar ends would you recommend if get? [Try some black KCNC's... they're pretty sweet. And you'd be pleased to know - they face inwards rather sharply AND you could get them with PURPLE bolts! ] Btw, I have mid risers cut to 680mm. Will this look cool? [I really don't know dude. I'm not going to jump to assumptions with regards to what you, or your ride, do or don't look like. But you seem to have a very definitive idea of what's cool, and what's not - so rock on, boyTonto!] see ya'll, hahahaha [Ok, hahahahahaha] Oh, and one last thing - bustthesickness - in the name of all that is still sane, normal, and categorisable in this world, do not, under any circumstances, Google a Jeff Jones H-Bar. Because that man clearly has no clue what he's doing... Designing his own bikes. Riding trails/singeltrack with that bar on his bikes. Madness. Denialist madness, I tell you... hahaha, it's a hose that you wrote such an essay dude! LOL! I don't have the time to read all of this, but thanks for taking the time to say whatever it is you sed. I'm sure it's all packed with gems eh! laterzz How old are you Butt? you would be taken a little more seriously around here if you didn't waste people's time. Hi Rude, please read option #7 for my 'Bar End Users'. What color are u'rs? I didnt know being all old and serious was such a drag. Anyways, you just called me Butt, so how old are you??...oh, and who said I want to be taken seriously? THIS WHOLE THREAD IS A JOKE, AND NOW SO ARE YOU.

How very sarcastic of you RodTi. Thank you. You're very sweet. Let me guess that you have bar ends on your riser bars? Uhhhm - nope. They looked reallllllllll fugly on my ride. Purple ones perhaps? Uhhhmm nope. But back in the day, purple bull-horns (not bar-ends) were the sizzle... But then, you might not agree with that... Oh wait - do I care? Here are a couple of reasons why you SHOULDNT have bar ends on your risers: [Can't wait.] 1) The angle of the riser bars is not straight like XC flat bars. [One point.] Typically riser bars angle upward and inward. [One point.] By putting bar ends onto your risers, you end up with bar ends sticking outwards like great big hooks to hook onto branches and newbies. [-2 points.] [Dude. Seriously. When was the last time you had a look at bar-ends? They don't point outwards - they are specifically designed to point inwards, or else, you'd "hook onto branches and newbies..." Their design used to be rather more hazardous - but again, that was back in the day - when trail/singletrack riding was less 'claustrophobic'. Of course, some say, that riding through a narrow trail with bar-ends, takes more skill....] Normally, riser bars are left wide. [1/2 point.] [Or, if you don't like them wide - you could cut them back (*gasp*)...] Usually, the are around 650mm and upwards. [Yes] This, believe it or not [Ripley], provides extra leverage when cornering in technical terrain, as well as extra balance when doing nice big airs and drop-offs. [Really? Yes? Altenatively: "well, doh".] Add to this now your [mine, yours, everybody] purple bar ends [or purple bull horns - see above] sticking out at an angle [see above], and you might end up with needing to cut the trails wider, or even build bridges that are 3 meters wide [Tokai?] so you and your bars can get through. But of course - where have you been? Surely, on your all-mountain sojourns, you must have bumped into those crazy purple bar-end/bull-horn fiends, carrying their battery-operated chainsaws back into the bush/trail/forest to go and cut-back on that pestilential trail that tried to rip their beloved purple bar-ends/horns off their trusty steeds??? This brings me to my second point... [oh goody! ] 2) Usually riser bars are put onto the relaxed angled all mountain type setup. [so putting them on XC rides is ok? Or only if done, 'un'-usually so?] Us all mountain riders [so you're an 'all mountain rider', huh? Wow. Awesome. Respect.] are not usually so hung up on bending the cranks up hills, with the need for so much extra leverage that these purple bar ends of yours so suitably supply. [so you assume, firstly, that I've got purple bar-ends/horns, secondly, that I'm not one of your all-mountain types, thirdly, that if I were, I wouldn't be hung up on climbing and lastly, even if I were - I wouldn't want extra leverage... Goodness - you must read minds... ] 3) The kinds of folks who retro-fit all mountain type riser bars to a XC designed flat bar bike are in denial [Really? That's a pretty meaty statement. Would love to hear how you got to this conclusion], and secretly wish they'd bought a bike made for having fun, and not one made for having "minimum rolling resistance". [Whilst not wishing to speak on behalf of the "others" - here's a thought - maybe other people don't fit into your little neat categorisation of what mtb'ing is all about - maybe some people have 'fun' on a "minimum-rolling resistance" XC bike, doing stuff you all-mountain riders do... Maybe they do a bit of both, and don't see the need to have 2 bikes for 2 different styles of riding. I'd want to say it's pretty presumptious of you to suggest that a XC rider with a riser bar is clearly a denialist who wishes with all his heart he'd bought a 'fun' all-mountain bike so that he could thrash around with it - but then, maybe I'd come across as being sarcastic...] 4) Bar ends on riser bars make quite nasty puncture holes in torsos and if they dont hook up on a branch, will leave you wishing you'd not done the Fairy trail when the bridge was wet, leading to you slipping and the bar ends ending up in your chest. [Dude. "Puncture holes in torsos?" Really? You do know that we're talking about bar-ends - and that 'bull-horns' don't actually mean sharp, pointy, horns.... You appear to be a person prone to falling on your handlebars. Maybe you should consider switching to XC to improve your skills (even though, you'd have to buy a XC bike to do that) - before returning to all-mountain... Wait. I've just read what you wrote again - did you actually slip on a wet bridge and impale your torso on your bar-ends? Hectic. No disrespect - but do you have photos? How deep were you impaled? And what does having bar-ends on your ride have anything to do with slipping on a wet bridge? And what, in the name of all that is holy, were you doing with bar-ends on your bike? ] 5) They look very silly, especially if you choose purple ones. [ok ok ok. Would you prefer pink? Maybe fuschia?] 6) Bar ends on risers only really look good if you have the matching 'BOY' or 'Tonto' metal plate style cap, to wear afterwards along with some really neat Buffalo raver boots and a t-shirt from Mr.Price or Billabong. [You appear to know wayyyyy more about the particular style required than is safe - I'll just leave this one as is....] 7) Bar ends on risers should only ever be used if you're the kind of person who can't take a joke, in which case, after the flaming you'll send my way for this, will let us know the status. [Oh touche. Velly velly clever Peter for dropping this little gem in here... Be that as it may, from the ribbing you suggest a rider would get for putting bar-ends on a riser bar - never mind purple horns - I'd suggest one would have to be pretty good at taking a joke... Unless one would simply decide to wave the fat-two-fingered-salute at the very ethereal b-sh*t surrounding our obsession, as initially suggested...] Oh, no, wait...you can have different hand positions if you use bar ends? ["Yes You CAN..."] Awesome, I've been dying to have my hands far from the brakes [Ok. Try sitting on them. ] Which bar ends would you recommend if get? [Try some black KCNC's... they're pretty sweet. And you'd be pleased to know - they face inwards rather sharply AND you could get them with PURPLE bolts! ] Btw, I have mid risers cut to 680mm. Will this look cool? [I really don't know dude. I'm not going to jump to assumptions with regards to what you, or your ride, do or don't look like. But you seem to have a very definitive idea of what's cool, and what's not - so rock on, boyTonto!] see ya'll, hahahaha [Ok, hahahahahaha] Oh, and one last thing - bustthesickness - in the name of all that is still sane, normal, and categorisable in this world, do not, under any circumstances, Google a Jeff Jones H-Bar. Because that man clearly has no clue what he's doing... Designing his own bikes. Riding trails/singeltrack with that bar on his bikes. Madness. Denialist madness, I tell you... hahaha, it's a hose that you wrote such an essay dude! LOL! I don't have the time to read all of this, but thanks for taking the time to say whatever it is you sed. I'm sure it's all packed with gems eh! laterzz

How very sarcastic of you RodTi. Let me guess that you have bar ends on your riser bars? Purple ones perhaps? Here are a couple of reasons why you SHOULDNT have bar ends on your risers: 1) The angle of the riser bars is not straight like XC flat bars. Typically riser bars angle upward and inward. By putting bar ends onto your risers, you end up with bar ends sticking outwards like great big hooks to hook onto branches and newbies. Normally, riser bars are left wide. Usually, the are around 650mm and upwards. This, believe it or not, provides extra leverage when cornering in technical terrain, as well as extra balance when doing nice big airs and drop-offs. Add to this now your purple bar ends sticking out at an angle, and you might end up with needing to cut the trails wider, or even build bridges that are 3 meters wide so you and your bars can get through. This brings me to my second point... 2) Usually riser bars are put onto the relaxed angled all mountain type setup. Us all mountain riders are not usually so hung up on bending the cranks up hills, with the need for so much extra leverage that these purple bar ends of yours so suitably supply. 3) The kinds of folks who retro-fit all mountain type riser bars to a XC designed flat bar bike are in denial, and secretly wish they'd bought a bike made for having fun, and not one made for having "minimum rolling resistance". 4) Bar ends on riser bars make quite nasty puncture holes in torsos and if they dont hook up on a branch, will leave you wishing you'd not done the Fairy trail when the bridge was wet, leading to you slipping and the bar ends ending up in your chest. 5) They look very silly, especially if you choose purple ones. 6) Bar ends on risers only really look good if you have the matching 'BOY' or 'Tonto' metal plate style cap, to wear afterwards along with some really neat Buffalo raver boots and a t-shirt from Mr.Price or Billabong. 7) Bar ends on risers should only ever be used if you're the kind of person who can't take a joke, in which case, after the flaming you'll send my way for this, will let us know the status. Oh, no, wait...you can have different hand positions if you use bar ends? Awesome, I've been dying to have my hands far from the brakes. Which bar ends would you recommend if get? Btw, I have mid risers cut to 680mm. Will this look cool? see ya'll, hahahaha