Icycling

I actually believe this line would close about 75% or more or more of LBS. As we seen from just above the importors are also the BANKS for most of the LBS! A lot of the shops need this back up /help to keep their doors open - with all due respect as also just above a lot of stock is "consignment" it invoice but then returned as invoice is due!

Bank - Pro bike INC. Ther 5th largest bank in SA after the big 4! Nice 1 Brandon

Steve - I on your side here - but as madmarc has indicated importor should become retailer etc. If this were to close finish Line cycles and the other shop in the area how do you think this would affect the cycling comunity in your area or even you own motivation to cycle?

I suspect that my wealth will increase 10 fold in manufacturing for the world market where you can control the price and not as "LBS" - beleive it or not that is where my energy now lies! Been as "Willehond" put it been the "fruit farmer" - and only making 5% off the world market.

Klapperkop - and for Cycling in SA this made lead to an implosion and not an explosion of cyclists on the road / cycle industry - that my fear! I am fortunate enough that I am able to chose Chris's parth or stay the traditional part and my feeling is the traditional parth will sustain cycling in the country and Chris's parth could bring it back to the size of the sport it was when Chris SNR raced! Very small! I personnel do not want to see that happen.

Too add weight! How long can fresh produce sit on the floor - about a week? so they turn over their profit 52 times in a year - not on all their goods but about 1/3. Cycle retailer as mentioned before turn their stock over on avg about 3 to 4 times per year - ecconomics and we all eat we dont all cycle!

Now you guys have raised the next point on what the local importors end up being - and that is the BANK for about 90% of the shops in the country! I.e. most shops buy on accounts and either pay on time or late.

Westdene always pays me cash so I am sure you correct!

Been in Cape Town - I was last at Westdene and Cajees - Westrand in August - I only been once to Westdenes 2nd floor (That was the cheaper bike section) but I am sure WE has more stock in terms of value. When last were you at WE?

ewep - Both of them (Cajees and Westdene) have large amounts of stock of the cheaper bike - WE in cape Town prides himself on keep not only a lot of this kind of stock but also stock of top end bikes!

As mentioned the last time I did shoes was in 1994 - and 2 of us fought very hard on the traiff on shoes as nobody make them in SA and you guys are now benefitting as is was brough down in I think 1997 to 30% - by then cycling shoes as a business did not interest!

madmarc - the last time I imported shoes was back in 94! I stopped for 1 reason - 45% duty 14% vat + 2% - and then their was a 15% ser charge on all imported good. SARS 76% no risk - me 30% and then still taxed on that!

Zeroplay _ I do! This is why the 7/11 can sell a 2 litre Coke for R14.00 and Pick 'n Pay is R9.95! The coffee shop sell a 200ml Coke for R8.00! Now we talking some major mark up - we should all drink tap water!

ewep - as mentioned before I can get more than 20% on the stock market just by buying the share index and not even watching any stocks - and no overhead costs - their are risk yes! That is yearly agreed. Why for only an extra 5% would I work pay rent and have employment acts etc to contend with? So if my shop has 15million rands worth of stock to just better the all share index I need to make 3 million profit - I can assure you the cycle market is not endless and no shop in this country turns over their avg stock holding more than 3 times. If the mark up was just 25% a bike shop owner would be much better off just having their investments in the shop on the stock market!

clothing 400%! Ok lets look at SA and what a our goverment take and to answer what most importor mark up! Most importors work on a 30% to 40% mark up of which about 10% is written off straight away to freight and clearing costs so that leaves 20% to 30% to run their operations in South Africa - paying wages renting space etc. Now the goverment who is the silent partner in all our business on items such as cycling shoes for example. Well 1st on everyhting they take 14% VAT and add on 2% for imported goods! But shoes - we all know we make cycling shoes in this country - where (protecting the local manufatures)? They add a 45% duty? So the silent partner take 61% whithout any risk and as the stuff arrives before the importor know if he can sell it again! So what is excessive? But 40% for the retailer is reasonable in the big picture! Why is Trevor Manuel the only politician we all seem to like and respect - he takes most of money?

Ok what is overcharge? Let look at a bike shop across the road to CWC - Willie Engelbrecht. Maybe this is the best pro shop of all the pro shops in the country! He probably has about 15million rands worth of stock in his shop at any one time - that his cost price! Most of it paid for. Well for doing nothing and having that 15million on the stock market this year just buy the all share index he would have made just over 20%- that is 3 milion rand - is this a good benchmark to work from - I personnaly think so! So for working his ass (in his case his leg) off how much more should he make? He also has the overheads of rent, staff and old stock etc - which on the stock market he would not! So to have say a 50% mark up which then he offer less 10% almost to all his customers is this overcharging? I personnally don't think so! For all that extra effort and hassel and risk!

Did not really want to work today, but a couple of points: What would happen to the market if J & J and Coolheat just opened their doors to the public (or online shop)? They then sold the stuff to you the end user at the same cost they give it to your local bike dealer - naturally you would get the cash discount as you do not have an account! WHY NOT? CWC would probably start to look expensive on some items! I am sure that within a few month a lot off your local bike shop would be closed - quite a few people would go out of business etc. Not to mention you the bike rider would have to ride quite a lot further to buy a spare tube or get your bike serviced. Is this I good thing? Personally I do not think so - why? Well take for example the Cape Argus Pick 'n Pay cycle tour each year about 40% of the entry are 1st time Cycle Tour riders - that quite a large group of cyclist probably about half of those only started riding that year - I suspect these guy buy their 1st bike from the Local bike shop (as apposed to online) who probably offer the best advise they can on set up etc. Now my fear is that if the local bike shops population reducers by say 50% then the new entry into the sport of cycling will diminish due to lack of ability to buy bike and spares etc. You may ask well how does this affect me I already have all the know how and I am in the sport already - and I know who to buy online spares from already? Well no doubt funride numbers would start to drop and the number of funrides would ultimately decline. On the other hand I am a believer that the more cyclist on the road that are training the more awareness their is of cyclist by our fellow road users and we can only HOPE the more they will consider and respect us cyclist as fellow road users without the intent of getting in their "4X4" to see how many cyclist they can knock over that day (some Facebook groups have been started over this). Maybe now these "4x4" owners will have friends or family members who also enjoy cycling and won't be so intent on killing cyclist - this may just be a HOPE of course! Also goverment may start to increase the number of bike lanes - so we can ride safe. Their are a whole bunch of other reasons why the 3 tiered system (supplier/ manufacturer - Importer/ distributor - cycle retailer) in the cycle industry is better than a 2 tiered system (supplier / manufacturer - cycle retailer) but I really do not want to spend the whole day in front of my computer. As I am in the business in possibly all chains from the export of carbon fibre wheels for the worlds biggest cycle brand made in Cape Town - all the way through to owning a local bike shop - I can assure you that the margin for anyone in the cycle trade are reasonable and certainly acceptable and nowhere close to that of what for argument sake the clothing industry works on!

Groot Lem - what wrong with riding outside the yellow line? I am not sure when you last you road up Constantia nek - Hout Bay side - but the idoit put those huge steal cat eyes inside the yellow line which makes it imppossible to ride comfortably inside the yellow line - so a legal road user on the road (wearing a helmet) I choose to ride on the road - at any rate by law I have up till the white line and by law a motorist should not in theory be over taking a cyclist on a solid white line! Sometimes I feel us cyclist have been way to considerate to motorist for staying as far left as possible and now motorist feel it is their right to speed past cyclist who are just been considerate by stay left! Which if you drive on the high ways you will notice the slow lane is normally the quickest as when people climb into their cars they seem to loose all their considerate habits - I assume they had some to start off with. Basically our motorist in this country are not educated correctly all round and licences are handed out way to easily and hopefully sooner not later the drivers tests will be a lot harder for motorist to get licence as in Europe for example

If I was the supplier of the frame I would offer to take it to the cargo part of the airport and you could collect it the nect day in JHB total without insurance about R140.00. Normal parcel post at post office about 5 day delivery or less no insurance also very cheap as they only use weight R50.00 if that!!!

Spinergy go for less than R5000.00 and ksyrium are closer to R6000.00 I import both pm me. As you have said they pritty comparable, but the Spinergys have no weight limit as they are far stonger wheels SL2 have a limit of 75kg!

Then Spinergy Xaero lite are the way to go - They Less than R5000.00 per pair light and stong! PM me.

The Yak - how tall and heavy are you? This can impact on the wheels you choose!

I started this forum a couple of days ago when I was removed from the facebook topic - well the response has been huge and huge enough for the creator to go into hiding! We as cyclist should stick together more often at times like these. Maybe it time the Cape Argus Pick 'n Pay cycle tour becomes a protest ride again! That may mean no road closure which would be a pitty for us!

well done!!!

Ja you join my over 95Kg club - I have a Big Mac for lunch!