Where do you do your FTP?

['Dale]

 

 

did this about 3weeks ago.

 

I could barely turn the pedals for the last 30sec sessions.

 

Phew!

 

[Jakkals.]

did this about 3weeks ago.

 

I could barely turn the pedals for the last 30sec sessions.

 

with an IF of 1.12

[madmarc]

I used to do heart rate training and never really got anywhere. so I went off to Cadence Training and signed for an 8 week course, mainly to understand how power training works. I have a TACX Flow with a Power Meter but never understood how I could use it properly.

 

One thing I learnt was it is easier to train in different power zones than it is to train in heart rate zones. If your set says "power zone 3 for 6 min" then you can get into that power zone very quickly and do the 6 minutes. with heart rate zones i found i would either over shoot or undershoot the zone and 6 min would become 10 min trying to get a full 6 min in a particular zone.

 

also Power / Weight ratio means more to me than heart rate. If its increasing with a constant weight, then i know i'm getting stronger, and i can improve on 2 fronts being fitness or strength as well as losing weight.

 

I spent a lot of time getting from 97 to 85 kg, and not prepared to drop too much more so now i work on FTP and do a FTP test on my IDT every 8 weeks and reset my power training zones accordingly.

[DarrenSmith]

It is one way to track progress, rouxtjie.

 

Forcing more power through the pedals over time with the same HR

(moving to another power zone while remaining in the same HR zone)

 

If you can, read some on 'decoupling'

 

Yes HR is used to measure decoupling in aerobic rides, but HR gives you another view into what your body is doing, eg. You can actually track progress and fatigue on a daily basis, you can also see what parts of each ride you work harder to produce the same wattage (weak areas), and wattage vs Hr on specific climbs on different days, etc.

 

As well as if say, you are doing 1 min intervals, obviously your heart rate is going to climb the whole min, but you can actual look at where it climbs quicker at a constant wattage (and also where wattage drops). If your HR climbs after X min, etc.

 

It is also more accurate to use HR than using power for aerobic work.

 

Just measuring specific CP zones gives you a very "narrow" view, a 20 min test (or your FTP) only tells you how strong you are at 20min or 60min.

 

"Training and racing with a power meter" and "The cyclist training bible" are good books to read. There are also a lot of good articals on the training peaks site, as well as the wattage forums.

Edited April 23, 2014 by DarrenSmith

[rouxtjie]

Yes HR is used to measure decoupling in aerobic rides, but HR gives you another view into what your body is doing, eg. You can actually track progress and fatigue on a daily basis, you can also see what parts of each ride you work harder to produce the same wattage (weak areas).

 

As well as if say, you are doing 1 min intervals, obviously your heart rate is going to climb the whole min, but you can actual look at where it climbs quicker at a constant wattage (and also where wattage drops). If your HR climbs after X min, etc.

 

It is also more accurate to use HR than using power for aerobic work.

 

Just measuring specific CP zones gives you a very "narrow" view, a 20 min test (or your FTP) only tells you how strong you are at 20min or 60min.

 

"Training and racing with a power meter" and "The cyclist training bible" are good books to read. There is also a lot of good articals on the training peaks site, as well as the wattage forums.

Can't say I am interested in any of that, but hey if it works for you, who am I to argue.

 

Power to weight is all I am concerned about, that really makes the bike move forward faster or slower...HR doesnt.

[BarHugger]

One problem hugger....is measurement. If you work backwards with time, you have to keep weight and conditions constant....remember its a wordsum

 

Conditions might change between when you do said hill, windy, not windy, hot or not...weight difference because you are eating more or less pies...upgrades to your bike etc so how do you accurately know your improving by just going on time....watts are constant no matter the bike, conditions or incline.

 

Its also hard to do proper power intervals outdoors because your program changes constantly so you would need to find different gradients flats and descents based in your program for the day...which is going to be a nearly impossible task

 

As a quick and dirty, I agree...ride something(a hill as in your example) and see how much faster you are riding the same hill after a couple of weeks of training...but its not the most accurate.

 

All valid points and I understand your preference to using Watts. I sometimes do 45-60min on a Monark stationary ergometer (no electronics, pedal against a weighted resistance). Play around with the rpm (65-80) while the resistance is 3.5-4kg. Also like to train at specific Wattages while looking at HR and time. Same Watts at lower HR held for longer interval.....progress, but artificial. It is like measuring the fitness of a soccer player on a tteadmill.....good but not specific.

 

Time is time and is objective.....regardless of the conditions. If you do the hill training thing in perfect conditions it is great. The test however is can you do/maintain it even with a small disadvantage......and can you plan/adapt to still get the optimum performance. Much more specific training which also contributes more to riding economy and efficient movement.

 

In summary, use what works for you. Each and every training method holds its own advantages and disadvantages. Steep hill against time is just a simple, practical, cheap, sport specific way of training if the fancy equipment is not available.

 

And I still agree with you......at the end of the day it is about power (endurance).

[BarHugger]

One problem hugger....is measurement. If you work backwards with time, you have to keep weight and conditions constant....remember its a wordsum

 

Conditions might change between when yyou do said hill, windy, not windy, hot or not...weight difference because you are eating more or less pies...upgrades to your bike etc so how do you accurately know your improving by just going on time....watts are constant no matter the bike, conditions or incline.

 

Its also hard to do proper power intervals outdoors because your program changes constantly so you would need to find different gradients flats and descents based in your program for the day...which is going to be a nearly impossible task

 

As a quick and dirty, I agree...ride something(a hill as in your example) and see how much faster you are riding the same hill after a couple of weeks of training...but its not the most accurate.

 

All valid points and I understand your preference to using Watts. I sometimes do 45-60min on a Monark stationary ergometer (no electronics, pedal against a weighted resistance). Play around with the rpm (65-80) while the resistance is 3.5-4kg. Also like to train at specific Wattages while looking at HR and time. Same Watts at lower HR held for longer interval.....progress, but artificial. It is like measuring the fitness of a soccer player on a treadmill.....good but not specific.

 

Time is time and is objective.....regardless of the conditions. If you do the hill training thing in perfect conditions it is great. The test however is can you do/maintain it even with a small disadvantage......and can you plan/adapt to still get the optimum performance. Much more specific training which also contributes more to riding economy and efficient movement.

 

In summary, use what works for you. Each and every training method holds its own advantages and disadvantages. Steep hill against time is just a simple, practical, cheap, sport specific way of training if the fancy equipment is not available.

 

And I still agree with you......at the end of the day it is about power (endurance).

Edited April 23, 2014 by BarHugger

['Dale]

 

 

with an IF of 1.12

 

You must have slept lekka that night

:-O

[Jakkals.]

Recently hunter allen did a 20week training phase, spending all the time, ie 50min of an hour in his sweetspot. after 20 weeks he had a FTP increase of 20%.

 

Thats really not bad figures. I can see myself doing something like that, however I think my mind will explode of boredom.

[rouxtjie]

 

In summary, use what works for you. Each and every training method holds its own advantages and disadvantages. Steep hill against time is just a simple, practical, cheap, sport specific way of training if the fancy equipment is not available.

 

And I still agree with you......at the end of the day it is about power (endurance).

Agree...its a quick way of determining gains or losses.

[DarrenSmith]

At the end of the day you want the most data, and use that information to train smarter.

All valid points and I understand your preference to using Watts. I sometimes do 45-60min on a Monark stationary ergometer (no electronics, pedal against a weighted resistance). Play around with the rpm (65-80) while the resistance is 3.5-4kg. Also like to train at specific Wattages while looking at HR and time. Same Watts at lower HR held for longer interval.....progress, but artificial. It is like measuring the fitness of a soccer player on a tteadmill.....good but not specific.

 

Time is time and is objective.....regardless of the conditions. If you do the hill training thing in perfect conditions it is great. The test however is can you do/maintain it even with a small disadvantage......and can you plan/adapt to still get the optimum performance. Much more specific training which also contributes more to riding economy and efficient movement.

 

In summary, use what works for you. Each and every training method holds its own advantages and disadvantages. Steep hill against time is just a simple, practical, cheap, sport specific way of training if the fancy equipment is not available.

 

And I still agree with you......at the end of the day it is about power (endurance).

 

At the end of the day you want the most data, and use that information to train smarter. You have to train it the way you are most comfortable.

[RaymondC]

The Villiersdorp side of Franschoek pass works pretty well, given that a howling South Easter is not present. A constant gradient and hardly any traffic.

[rouxtjie]

At the end of the day you want the most data, and use that information to train smarter.

 

 

At the end of the day you want the most data, and use that information to train smarter. You have to train it the way you are most comfortable.

mmmm I disagree...its not the most data, but the most important data....what makes the bike move forward faster or slower. Moving X weight over Y distance in Z time.

[BarHugger]

 

Agree...its a quick way of determining gains or losses.

 

.....so when is it BEER time......?

[rouxtjie]

.....so when is it BEER time......?

Ons gaan nou braai....

 

Me thinks we can talk for a long time about this, we on the same page.....over a beer of course.

[Mikesa9]

with an IF of 1.12

I also did it last night. Hectic, hectic. IF of 1.04! I must say though that I made it which made me chuffed. Any idea where we can get more workouts like these?