Agteros Posted September 17, 2012 Share Nobodys forced to do anything, you make your own decisions. if you cross the white line to gain shelter from the wind behind the rider infront of you, thats your choice - safe or not. If you decide to only wheelsuck and wait for others to do the leading, thats also your choice (dont expect to make any friends). If you choose to move up and put some effort in pulling the bunch, its also your choice, and hopefully you are strong enough to shed those content with sucking. ffs make up your own mind, its racing, not sheep farming... Do forget holding hands and singing kumbaya in the bunch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcza Posted September 17, 2012 Share Many times I wanted to pull at the front of the group I was in, I rode away from them Guess keeping a steady speed up a hill does not quite mean that!I find that people tend to take too long pulls at the front as if they are waiting for somebody to come take over. Do your pull, and then move over, FORCING the next person to take the lead! True! Saw that happening, guys should move over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcza Posted September 17, 2012 Share Where you on the black Scott Full Suss MTB with a black top on? If so, respect! You were a machine! No I was on a roadbike but I saw the guy you're talking about. He was wearing a Mitsubishi shirt. He ran out of gears once they upped the pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewF Posted September 17, 2012 Share Fandacious - read what I said. Racing properly surely doesn't extend to endangering the lives of other cyclists and seriously pissing off motorists with crazy riding? The guys up front are NOT to blame... the guys taking the slip and benefit by riding on the OTHER SIDE OF THE ROAD are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Li Mu Bai Posted September 17, 2012 Share move over or sit up. the guys following will get the drift and take over if you slow down enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooterza Posted September 17, 2012 Share Guys, I feel we are missing the point a bit talking about "it's your choice" etc. Here is the point. We were riding CL. Not AL or pros or elites etc. There is only 1 reason to gutter and that is that you are trying to make those behind you suffer. Which I 100% understand if you are pushing for a top 10 finish. NOBODY in that group would have finished top 10 or even top 50. So why make others suffer more? By riding on the right, the NETT effect was that the group DID ride on or over the white line. I personally didn't cross the white line but saw many that did. I also saw motorists getting very irate with that kind of dangerous behaviour. Whilst I agree that it's a free world, the guy(s) at the front know that guttering has this impact and they did it anyway. Which in my opinion is not a decent way to ride. Had I dropped off the back and tried to start my own group, I probably would have been left to ride solo for several k's. There is no guarantee that the next group wouldn't have been guttering too. So, not a very compelling idea. Better to hang in there. Clearly some here won't agree with me but I think that using pro tactics when you are a plodder CL rider (which I most definitely am) is pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcza Posted September 17, 2012 Share Eish Scooterza even as a MTBer I know thats the way it works. Surely the guy in front will not change his line to suit the guys behind him? I saw exactly what you're talking about but you can't blame the guy in front. PS: I started behind you in EL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewF Posted September 17, 2012 Share Guys, I feel we are missing the point a bit talking about "it's your choice" etc. Here is the point. We were riding CL. Not AL or pros or elites etc. There is only 1 reason to gutter and that is that you are trying to make those behind you suffer. Which I 100% understand if you are pushing for a top 10 finish. NOBODY in that group would have finished top 10 or even top 50. So why make others suffer more? By riding on the right, the NETT effect was that the group DID ride on or over the white line. I personally didn't cross the white line but saw many that did. I also saw motorists getting very irate with that kind of dangerous behaviour. Whilst I agree that it's a free world, the guy(s) at the front know that guttering has this impact and they did it anyway. Which in my opinion is not a decent way to ride. Had I dropped off the back and tried to start my own group, I probably would have been left to ride solo for several k's. There is no guarantee that the next group wouldn't have been guttering too. So, not a very compelling idea. Better to hang in there. Clearly some here won't agree with me but I think that using pro tactics when you are a plodder CL rider (which I most definitely am) is pathetic. I totally understand what you are trying to say here bud, but to be honest (if this is the group I think you're talking about), the guys upfront more than likely did this because NO ONE came up to help. At one point there were around 30 strong in the group and ALL but maybe 6/7 riders (including me) were just wheel sucking. NO one made ANY effort to help with the load. Why make YOU guys suffer?! Because that's all WE did to pull you guys along. End of story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agteros Posted September 17, 2012 Share Guys, I feel we are missing the point a bit talking about "it's your choice" etc. Here is the point. We were riding CL. Not AL or pros or elites etc. There is only 1 reason to gutter and that is that you are trying to make those behind you suffer. Which I 100% understand if you are pushing for a top 10 finish. NOBODY in that group would have finished top 10 or even top 50. So why make others suffer more? By riding on the right, the NETT effect was that the group DID ride on or over the white line. I personally didn't cross the white line but saw many that did. I also saw motorists getting very irate with that kind of dangerous behaviour. Whilst I agree that it's a free world, the guy(s) at the front know that guttering has this impact and they did it anyway. Which in my opinion is not a decent way to ride. Had I dropped off the back and tried to start my own group, I probably would have been left to ride solo for several k's. There is no guarantee that the next group wouldn't have been guttering too. So, not a very compelling idea. Better to hang in there. Clearly some here won't agree with me but I think that using pro tactics when you are a plodder CL rider (which I most definitely am) is pathetic.Disagree! No person can take responsibility for the actions.of others! So taking you il-logic further, should you enter the next race knowing somebody will get hurt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooterza Posted September 17, 2012 Share Eish Scooterza even as a MTBer I know thats the way it works. Surely the guy in front will not change his line to suit the guys behind him? I saw exactly what you're talking about but you can't blame the guy in front. PS: I started behind you in EL.Me personally - if I see you are riding behind me, I will ride in such a way as to make it easiest for you. I won't negatively impact my own ride but if riding on the left is safest for you and makes no difference to me, then I will ride on the left. That's how I ride. But perhaps I am not "hard" enough to make those fellow cyclists behind me suffer! Grrrrr!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooterza Posted September 17, 2012 Share Disagree! No person can take responsibility for the actions.of others! So taking you il-logic further, should you enter the next race knowing somebody will get hurt?Keh? How is my entering a race making it more dangerous for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fandacious Posted September 17, 2012 Share Let's flip this argument. For the guys that were at the front, what negative impact would they have had if they had ridden on the left hand side of the road? I understand that they might have had a few of the wheelsuckers blow past them at the finish. (Which is not cool - I agree.) But really, they would not have lost out on prize money or sponsorship or anything. And furthermore, I consider riding in a bunch as part of the skills required to be a good cyclist. If this gives you a better time, that's part of cycling. Do I consider a ride where I rode solo more worthy than one where I ride in a bunch? No! Actually finding and staying with a decent bunch is a strategy I use every time. Does it make me a cheat? I don't think so. If I don't take the lead does that make me weak? Well, as I argued above, in my opinion that makes the guys at the front silly. They should "force" the wheelsuckers to the front for a period so that they are too tired to have a late surge. I am 100% happy to take the lead and regularly do so. I am very happy if that makes it easier for my fellow cyclists. bragging rights. "hey did you guys check me guttering the bunch and blowing them to pieces" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agteros Posted September 17, 2012 Share Keh? How is my entering a race making it more dangerous for others?How is my (or anybody else) riding at the front, even if not on the left hand side of the road, making it more dangerous for others? Google this symbiosis (I know it is a 'big' word, but I DO have the spelling correct, so you can just cut and paste). Oh.. and keep free will in mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agteros Posted September 17, 2012 Share bragging rights. "hey did you guys check me guttering the bunch and blowing them to pieces"Exactly, but the pizza deliverer somehow feels that a.) He MUST wheel suckb.) He is ENTITLED to a wheel to suckc.) He is not personally responsible for his own safety Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooterza Posted September 17, 2012 Share Exactly, but the pizza deliverer somehow feels thata.) He MUST wheel suckb.) He is ENTITLED to a wheel to suckc.) He is not personally responsible for his own safetyYeah - that's what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agteros Posted September 17, 2012 Share Yeah - that's what I said. shame man. rather stay anonymous. coz after agreeing with that nobody would want you in the peloton/their bunch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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