andydude Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 Now the CSA want a slice of the cake too - so I have to belong to a 3rd organisation to enjoy the most out of my cycling. But I'm very unclear what this 3rd org is doing, aside from skimming some cream. Sure, I agree, it sucks. I'd like to know too. Would it stop me from entering the event as the OP intimated? No. I think that paying R235 is ridiculously good value for money when you take into consideration what you're getting for that amount of money. Walker you didn't really read much of what I sent? Did you read the 2020 vision? Did you read the balance sheets and income statements per month? Everything is there to the rand. If you want to go further and question specific line items, then please send CSA an email and come back to us. Listen, I'm not saying everything they do is 100% correct, but I believe a sport needs a body to control it. It's legislated and comes down from Government / Sascoc. Imagine the difficulty in managing the CSA, which is made up mostly of volunteers. Everybody wants something for them, but there sure are a lot of everybodies! If you're really interested you can actually become involved by attending meetings, etc. Fresh ideas are always needed in bodies and committees.
FootballingCyclist Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 I was just on the Cycle Events web site, and i speak under correction, but there are close to 10 road races in the Gauteng Province starting from 5th Jan 2013right through till 14 April 2013...In the Western Cape, yes you guessed it, we have ONE event on the Cycle Events calendar...I know there is the Tour De PPA and Tour De Stellenbosch etc, but there is a race every weekend from Jan right through to April in Gauteng, barring a weekend here and wekend there...Now i'm not NEW to cycling as per say, but im new into wanting to do every race that there is possible to do...Can someone more clued up perhaps tell me why it is so that there are so many in Gauteng, yet so few in Western Cape?? Just Curious??
walkerr Posted December 4, 2012 Author Posted December 4, 2012 Walker you didn't really read much of what I sent? Did you read the 2020 vision? Did you read the balance sheets and income statements per month? Everything is there to the rand. If you want to go further and question specific line items, then please send CSA an email and come back to us. Listen, I'm not saying everything they do is 100% correct, but I believe a sport needs a body to control it. It's legislated and comes down from Government / Sascoc. Imagine the difficulty in managing the CSA, which is made up mostly of volunteers. Everybody wants something for them, but there sure are a lot of everybodies! If you're really interested you can actually become involved by attending meetings, etc. Fresh ideas are always needed in bodies and committees. Sorry AndyDude - you are absolutely right, I didn't read it all - I skimmed a few bits. Thanks for pointing me back at the balance sheets though - interesting reading: So - license income, R2.88m - admin costs R2.06m. Again, thanks for the pointer, I'm now completely clear on where the money went.
walkerr Posted December 4, 2012 Author Posted December 4, 2012 I was just on the Cycle Events web site, and i speak under correction, but there are close to 10 road races in the Gauteng Province starting from 5th Jan 2013right through till 14 April 2013...In the Western Cape, yes you guessed it, we have ONE event on the Cycle Events calendar...I know there is the Tour De PPA and Tour De Stellenbosch etc, but there is a race every weekend from Jan right through to April in Gauteng, barring a weekend here and wekend there...Now i'm not NEW to cycling as per say, but im new into wanting to do every race that there is possible to do...Can someone more clued up perhaps tell me why it is so that there are so many in Gauteng, yet so few in Western Cape?? Just Curious?? Sorry - wish I could help you there. The calendar does look a lot thinner this year than in past year's, but I'm not sure what the reason for that is. I know Cape Cobra got shunted back, due to road works I think - shame, was hoping to do that one. Have also seen a note about other peninsula ones also affected by road works, although that can't be the whole reason. We lost Die Wingerd a couple of years back, and the Wellington Lions 96km seems to have dropped off the calendar too this year. Great shame, as it's a nice ride - albeit similar route to One Tonner.
andydude Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 Sorry - wish I could help you there. The calendar does look a lot thinner this year than in past year's, but I'm not sure what the reason for that is. I know Cape Cobra got shunted back, due to road works I think - shame, was hoping to do that one. Have also seen a note about other peninsula ones also affected by road works, although that can't be the whole reason. We lost Die Wingerd a couple of years back, and the Wellington Lions 96km seems to have dropped off the calendar too this year. Great shame, as it's a nice ride - albeit similar route to One Tonner. Sounds about right. They are having difficulties reorganising races and/or routes and it can only be updated on calenders once confirmed. In general there's many more races in Jhb, I guess because there's many more people that cycle that side.
andydude Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 Sorry AndyDude - you are absolutely right, I didn't read it all - I skimmed a few bits. Thanks for pointing me back at the balance sheets though - interesting reading: So - license income, R2.88m - admin costs R2.06m. Again, thanks for the pointer, I'm now completely clear on where the money went. I know it sounds bad, but also to note that they really only should do admin. Let the people on the ground do what's needed on the ground. They'll for example choose a South African Road Team (admin), but they won't really get involved in the nitty gritty work. I'm not giving an opinion whether they should or not.
walkerr Posted December 4, 2012 Author Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) I know it sounds bad, but also to note that they really only should do admin. Let the people on the ground do what's needed on the ground. They'll for example choose a South African Road Team (admin), but they won't really get involved in the nitty gritty work. I'm not giving an opinion whether they should or not. Agree with you there - as an organizer, and non profit, admin is pretty much all you'd expect them to do I guess. Be nice if less of the money went on it, and presumably left more over to get to the grass roots of the sport. And by that, I don't mean priviledged gits like me with nice bikes ... more in the line of events and support for development cyclists etc. I wonder also how many people will get to the voluntrary R20 for a development rider donation last page now and might pass over it, having already had to add a non-optional CSA fee. Personally, if I enter an event I usualy remember to tick that box - and as above, I've already decided to try a different local event around that same time instead now, so it's immaterial in my case Just a thought. Edited December 4, 2012 by walkerr
ccc2 Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 Remember, if you enter a PPA event but you are not a ppa member then you pay extra (the amount differs from organiser to organiser and you also buy a temp number at R5 for the event. same with CSA events, CSA members pay the entry fee and non CSA members take out a day license at R35 for the event.both organisations need to sit down together and stop acting like spoilt brats and work out a solution to our problems here in the cape. we are the only region that has a PPA and a CSA affiliate, all other regions just have a csa affiliate and event promoters. i pay subs to ppa and the csa affiliate. event if ppa are taken back into the CSA structures my financial pmts to both would remain the same. CSA is the national body and ppa imho should affiliate to the regional csa affiliate and i should have the choice of belonging to either the ppa or the csa affiliate (ie club).
Stretch Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 so PPA does not include membership in their package anymore (and did not reduce their fee by R75) and people bitch about the R35 day fee...makes sense doesn't it. Dont get me wrong CSA has had issues in the past and there are still selection debates..but i really believe the new guard is taking a positive move forward. As for the R35..well its like a late entry fee, get a years membership for R75 or choose to pay R35 on the day. What are you paying for behind the scenes - lets hope we will see some positive outputs going forward...as for on the race day...has anyone actually seen what the commissaires do no race day? they are there from the start of registration to the time the last person comes in - they handle all your bitching and moaning on the day and any reports of people swearing, cheating or generally behaving like twits etc etc...your R35 pays in part for that I say lets give the CSA a chance and if we still dont see positive outputs for our R75 membership then I will be the first not to pay
Disylizzy Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 I was just on the Cycle Events web site, and i speak under correction, but there are close to 10 road races in the Gauteng Province starting from 5th Jan 2013right through till 14 April 2013...In the Western Cape, yes you guessed it, we have ONE event on the Cycle Events calendar...I know there is the Tour De PPA and Tour De Stellenbosch etc, but there is a race every weekend from Jan right through to April in Gauteng, barring a weekend here and wekend there...Now i'm not NEW to cycling as per say, but im new into wanting to do every race that there is possible to do...Can someone more clued up perhaps tell me why it is so that there are so many in Gauteng, yet so few in Western Cape?? Just Curious?? Here's the preliminary PPA calendar for the beginning of next year: http://www.pedalpower.org.za/blog/news/summer-2013-events/
walkerr Posted December 4, 2012 Author Posted December 4, 2012 so PPA does not include membership in their package anymore (and did not reduce their fee by R75) and people bitch It's a valid point about the PPA not reducing the R75 off the fee - somewhat worse, is that they still cite it as a member benefit on their web site. I dropped them an email on that, since it's clearly incorrect and misleading to anyone considering joining. As for given the CSA a chance - let's see. I'd be very happy if they do deliver, but I remain sceptical - even more so now AndyDude pointed me at the accounts and I had a chance to see how they spend the money they raise.
walkerr Posted December 4, 2012 Author Posted December 4, 2012 Let's just hope for the sake of Cycling, that CSA aren't using the same approach as ASA: http://www.sport24.co.za/OtherSport/Athletics/Financial-crisis-at-Athletics-SA-20121204
capeofstorms Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 As a funrider and a PPA member I cannot accept paying for a day license. Let the racers pay if they wish. If all the funriders avoid this event, perhaps some feathers will be ruffled. Can't see this event bein successfull without the support of funriders walkerr 1
walkerr Posted December 4, 2012 Author Posted December 4, 2012 As a funrider and a PPA member I cannot accept paying for a day license. Let the racers pay if they wish. If all the funriders avoid this event, perhaps some feathers will be ruffled. Can't see this event bein successfull without the support of funriders Was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who felt that way .... already voted with my pocket for 2013. Will gladly be back to the 99er in future years though if they can both get their acts together
Icycling Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 If you want a refund as PPA does not pay you CSA license anymore go vote on this Poll https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/122825-ppa-how-much-funding-should-the-association-retain-annually-ie-not-spend-on-cycling/
FootballingCyclist Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 Here's the preliminary PPA calendar for the beginning of next year: http://www.pedalpower.org.za/blog/news/summer-2013-events/ Thank you for that Disylizzy, much appreciated...
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