'Dale Posted September 25, 2013 Share Life is to short not to try it .Mix with a bit of growth hormone and testosterone .Man i am getting old .I need all 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopFuel Posted September 25, 2013 Share They paste articles on their webpage (I'll believe them more if I see it in a peer reviewed journal), and additionally, if you read the entire article (and not just the abstract), it becomes clear that there are methodological errors in some of the studies reported, and additionally that unrelated outcomes were reported. So what if your EPO went up slightly? Did it make any physiological difference? Did they control for confounding factors? How is supplementing a persons iron levels going to help you, unless you're anaemic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyluis Posted September 25, 2013 Share So is this what the hub is turning into? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headshot Posted September 25, 2013 Share And then there is the most significant performance enhancer of them all - the placebo effect - which most of these products produce in bucket loads. Problem is you don't get the effect unless you dish the BS big time. TopFuel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivr32 Posted September 26, 2013 Share Where is it on the shelves? Not on the shelves yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivr32 Posted September 26, 2013 Share I went and read their articles. There is one study I have come across that shows a benefit for EPO levels, but no difference in Hb, Hct or VO2max. And a systematic review (much better than anecdotal evidence @ivr32) of the topic concluded that there is little to no benefit in taking high doses of echinacea to improve performance in athletes. The problem I have with this company is that they plaster their webpage with all this pseudosicence bullsh*t, have a couple of people claim it helped them and start raking in the cash. Thanks for your reply. I learned a couple of new words today. Had to google half of the things you said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopFuel Posted September 26, 2013 Share Thanks for your reply. I learned a couple of new words today. Had to google half of the things you said No problem. I am all for supplementation, but I feel that what these types of companies do is nothing short of criminal. They (knowingly) sell the public and glorified sugar pill and make outrageous claims, then charge a fortune for it. It disgusts me. One of the best things that University has taught me, is to critically appraise a paper and evidence presented to you. Really opens up a whole new world and allows you to see through the marketing. There is a book: Bad Science by Ben Goldacre (I think it was mentioned above), that is brilliant and explains all these concepts in a factual and entertaining way, without the need for an epidemiological qualification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werner Al Posted September 30, 2013 Share Cannot compare to USN or any other product as the ingredients are not the same...I did come across some studies, but then again, I am sure these are all rigged as proposed by some people in previous posts.... http://www.omicsonline.org/2157-7595/2157-7595-1-e104.php http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/article/health-is-echinacea-the-wonder-herb-its-claimed-to-be-29341/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaco-fiets Posted September 30, 2013 Share already available from usn..... When I read heading I thought it could only be USN advertising such utter bull**** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starvin' Marvin Posted September 30, 2013 Share Yes! this is awesome. Now I dont need to train. I can just pop a few pills/potions and start winning races. Seriously. If you think ANY of this stuff makes the slightest difference you're delusional. Get off your ass and go ride your bike Of course it makes a difference. My wallet is just that much lighter so I should climb abit better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W1Z@RD Posted September 30, 2013 Share Just drink Creme Soda...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werner Al Posted October 3, 2013 Share So, received confirmation from them, I understand this is now available from selected stores and from www.yourfitness.com ivr32 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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