Clinchers Vs. Tubbies.

[Johan Bornman]

A tubular is more responsive and lighter. But its a racing only wheelset. The tubulars are more expensive' date=' but thats because they are designed for racing in mind. Dont buy a decent set of Tubby race wheels, and put cheap tubby's on them. Thats not on.
But there are some great HP tyres out there now, and they last long. And you can repair them if they puncture.[/quote']

 

Dear Simon, please tell us what "responsive" means.

 

 

[Johan Bornman]

We really need an FAQ on the Tech Forum. Admin?

 

We debated this topic extensively in November, it may be worthwhile revisiting it.

 

https://www.bikehub.co.za/forum_posts.asp?TID=18382&KW=tubbie&PID=285128#285128

 

 

[Icycling]

The Break - rolling resistance not only caused by presure but a tubby has a more perfect circular form to it reducing rolling resistance!

[Johan Bornman]

The Break - rolling resistance not only caused by presure but a tubby has a more perfect circular form to it reducing rolling resistance!

 

Peter, you probably refer to the tubular cross-section rather than the circular diameter of the tyre.

 

Nevertheless, rolling resistance in a bicycle tyre has nothing to do with the shape, but everything with the contact patch, the thickness of the tyre and tube, the type of rubber and in the case of a tubby, the glue used to stick it to the rim.

 

Besides, if you measure a tubbie and a chincher with a pair of calipers in several places around the tyre's cross-section, you'll find no noticeable difference in shape. Both are essentially perfect tubes. The fact that the clincher has an inside strip missing makes no difference to the shape facing the road.

 

A tubbie can only have less rolling resistance than an equivalent clincher if it is a) pumped harder and b) glued with hard rather than soft glue.

 

Soft glue has frictional losses between the tyre and rim whereas something like old-fashioned shellac elilminates that problem.

[Pantani]

Eish Johan, even with my Harvard degree I am battling to keep up... 

[Johan Bornman]

Eish Johan' date=' even with my Harvard degree I am battling to keep up...  [/quote']

 

Aag nee man Lincoln. Then again, I always though that Stanford did a better job of putting out intellectuals. Your mother should have known better.

 

Anyway, lets try this.

 

 

1) A pomp is a pomp ou pel. An increase in pressure in a tubbie or clincher will have an equal effect in both tyres. The one doesn't respond more favourably than the other.

2) Rubber is rubber, whether on a tubbie or clincher. Rolling resistance has to do with the thickness of the rubber and tube. More rubber, more RR.

3) Both tubbies and clinchers are equally round. Roundness has nothing to do with RR.

4) Tubbies have one handicap over clinchers - soft glue, which moves as the tyre rolls and saps up some of your enery.

 

Capish?

 

[javadude]

 

Eish Johan' date=' even with my Harvard degree I am battling to keep up...  [/quote']

 

Aag nee man Lincoln. Then again, I always though that Stanford did a better job of putting out intellectuals. Your mother should have known better.

 

Anyway, lets try this.

 

 

1) A pomp is a pomp ou pel. An increase in pressure in a tubbie or clincher will have an equal effect in both tyres. The one doesn't respond more favourably than the other.

2) Rubber is rubber, whether on a tubbie or clincher. Rolling resistance has to do with the thickness of the rubber and tube. More rubber, more RR.

3) Both tubbies and clinchers are equally round. Roundness has nothing to do with RR.

4) Tubbies have one handicap over clinchers - soft glue, which moves as the tyre rolls and saps up some of your enery.

 

Capish?

 

 

Why do they feel different though, or is it all in our heads? Maybe we need someone with a psychology degree to answer that one.

 

[Mudsimus]

A tubular is more responsive and lighter. But its a racing only wheelset. The tubulars are more expensive' date=' but thats because they are designed for racing in mind. Dont buy a decent set of Tubby race wheels, and put cheap tubby's on them. Thats not on.
But there are some great HP tyres out there now, and they last long. And you can repair them if they puncture.[/quote']

 

Dear Simon, please tell us what "responsive" means.

 

 

 

http://www.english-test.net/d.gif discuss the word responsive Meaning of responsive (adjective) answering; reacting (esp. positively or sympathetically) What does responsive mean? Dictionary.com ? Cambridge Dictionaries ? Merriam-Webster ? Onelook.com ? Answers.com http://www.english-test.net/s.gif responsive meaning

[GreyOwl]

For the first time ever...Bornmann has just set himself up.

 

 

 

I'm gonna challenge you Mr Bornmann...do a little research and tell us who was the last rider to win one of these races using High Pressures...Tour De France, Giro D Italia, Vuelta, Milan San Remo, SA road Champs...

 

 

 

If what you were saying is in fact true, then why would all the Pro teams waste so much money on Tubulars, when they could use much cheaper reusable Clinchers??

 

 

 

I personally prefer POLIBOND glue...I use a minimal amount as well, have glued them 4hours before I raced I might add...never had a problem. Clement, Vittoria and Conti glue's have never worked for me...

[bob_the_builder]

Touche GO. Do the top boys ride tubbies or HP on the track?

[GreyOwl]

Bob, on the track an HP is a no go. Its slower, and feels dull.

 

A tubular is far more responsive, and when I say that I mean it is quicker, and more manouverable.

 

If clinchers were that good, Mavic and Campagnolo would make clincher disc wheels...

[bob_the_builder]

 

Bob' date=' on the track an HP is a no go. Its slower, and feels dull.

 

A tubular is far more responsive, and when I say that I mean it is quicker, and more manouverable.

 

If clinchers were that good, Mavic and Campagnolo would make clincher disc wheels...[/quote']

 

Well, that answers the question you ask Mr Bornman. I've argued this point before on this forum... A good deal of cycling is inexplicable... 'It goes on feel' if you will. The guy with the best power output or whatever doesn't by default win the day. There is a lot of science in cycling, but for me, cycling is not a science.

 

[GreyOwl]

I've always said "cyclists dont race in labs, or under test conditions"

 

I would be the first to use clinchers if they rode as well as tubby's.

 

I have some Clement Seta Extra's in my garage. They are specifically for the sprint type events on the track.

 

We knew that whatever times we rode in training on our HP's, we would be MUCH quicker when we put our tubular race wheels on. Its a given.

 

In my opinion, a HP tyre is more likely to come off, or blow under pressure. Its only held in place by the walls of the rim and the pressure against it.

 

But a tubular keeps its shape regardless. And pump it really hard, and it grips even harder.

 

Like you said Bob...some things work better!

[1kTT]

Anybody who doubts that tubbies roll better than clenchers try this:

 

ride a pair of rollers with clenchers

now try the same thing with tubbies

 

you will be amazed at how much easier it is with the tubbies

 

I bought a set of tubbies to use for special occasions but everytime I go back to my clenchers they feel so cr@p that I put the tubbies back on.  Punctures are not an issue - just carry the Vittoria foam + a bomb in training.  If I am feeling really paranoid I carry a spare used tubbie.

 

 

[Christie]

So GO, to summarize what you are saying:

1. JB is talking nonsense

2. No significant pro races are won on clinchers

3. Lab tests are not applicable to cycling

 

Geepers, now that is drawing a line in the sand!

 

Some of my thoughts on these points:

 

2. Sometimes, pros do things for strange reasons, like superstition & tradition, for example. At some point in history, tubbies had a clear edge over clinchers. Tubby rims are still lighter than clinchers. Pros dont pay for their tyres, so cost wont bother them. Perhaps they do use hard glue when its very omportant, like fir TT's.

3. I think most of the equipment we see in the pro peleton sees extensive lab testing during development, before it gets raced. Lab tests dont lie. How else would they verify the safety of cars, planes etc?

 

And about point no. 1, good luck! hehe  

[buckstopper]

No personal experience with tubbies, but this was recently sent to me by a friend.

 

http://www.analyticcycling.com/CycleOps/PowerTapSLAlps.html