Roval wheels

[camelman]

I had a Stumpjumper 29r Fsr. Sold it yesterday and went for a ride with the guy. He was super chuffed, but for no reason a front spoke broke while braking, no rocks or bumps, it just broke at the nipple. Now this is not the first time this happens. I have been breaking spokes on the wheelset regularly this year. 2 on the back and 2 in front. Anyone else experiencing the same with a 1.5 year old Roval wheelset? I want to get the wheels respoked on Flow EX's and will share the cost with him as I assume it will happen again.

[David Marshall]

It will happen again.  That is typical with spoke fatigue - either breaking at the end of the thread in the nipple or in the J bend.  If more than one breaks it means they are all fatigued.  If your hub has less than 32 holes I wouldn't bother rebuilding on it - you will battle to get rims anyway.  If it is one with straight pull spokes I would also think twice before I reused it.  No one that I know of stocks double butted straight pull spokes of suitable length, so you would have to use straight guage spokes which will not solve the problem.

[Skylark]

Why would a newish wheel have spoke fatigue, poor quality spokes?

[David Marshall]

Spoke fatigue is caused by movement in the wheel and the part to break will be the weakest point - at the thread or in the elbow.  This is where the stress tends to concentrate.  Similarly if your chain comes off on the inside of the cassette and nicks a spoke it will later break at this point as that is where it forms a stress raiser.  The same flexion in the wheel will cause the rim around the nipple holes to crack after time.  The wheel diameter contributes to this - a 29" wheel flexes far, far more than a 26" wheel with the same number of spokes.  The choice and number of spokes will also have a significant effect on wheel life.  Double butted spokes are more durable (not stronger) then straight gauge spokes of the same quality.  A well built wheel where the spokes have been properly seated and stress relieved encourages the stress to concentrate in the thinner middle section of a DB spoke and improve spoke longevity.  This to the point that a confident wheelbuilder will vouch for the spokes for the life of the rim or hub, which ever dies first.

 

Straight gauge spokes are widely used because the machines used to build wheels can not detect when a DB spoke winds up and the wheels then need to be finished by hand.

[GLuvsMtb]

Spoke fatigue is caused by movement in the wheel and the part to break will be the weakest point - at the thread or in the elbow.  This is where the stress tends to concentrate.  Similarly if your chain comes off on the inside of the cassette and nicks a spoke it will later break at this point as that is where it forms a stress raiser.  The same flexion in the wheel will cause the rim around the nipple holes to crack after time.  The wheel diameter contributes to this - a 29" wheel flexes far, far more than a 26" wheel with the same number of spokes.  The choice and number of spokes will also have a significant effect on wheel life.  Double butted spokes are more durable (not stronger) then straight gauge spokes of the same quality.  A well built wheel where the spokes have been properly seated and stress relieved encourages the stress to concentrate in the thinner middle section of a DB spoke and improve spoke longevity.  This to the point that a confident wheelbuilder will vouch for the spokes for the life of the rim or hub, which ever dies first.

 

Straight gauge spokes are widely used because the machines used to build wheels can not detect when a DB spoke winds up and the wheels then need to be finished by hand.

Thanks for a comprehensive explanation. I had a few spokes on my Roval Control's snapping, one under hard braking and had similar concerns. When would you recommend a full re-build? (I know time / kms ridden etc is not an exact science) If say I loose 1 spoke a month? 

[camelman]

Thanks for a comprehensive explanation. I had a few spokes on my Roval Control's snapping, one under hard braking and had similar concerns. When would you recommend a full re-build? (I know time / kms ridden etc is not an exact science) If say I loose 1 spoke a month? 

That is all I wanted to hear.  You have the same bike and thus should have a similar wheel setup.  My bike was standing all through the winter and I don't really ride it that much as, I only used it in the big mountains.  On the first ride of the season just doing normal XC stuff I snapped a front and a back spoke.  After that it seems to be snapping spokes on every 2nd ride.  I am wondering if maybe the bonding of the Aluminium and the stainless (both on the nipple side and hub side) over time starts to corrode the stainless and makes it snap.  Either way I will find out how much a complete rebuild is and this time build it with brass nipples instead of those anodized aluminum jobbies

[Justin_F]

I'm quite interested to see this. I was always under the impression that they were tough as nails.

 

I have a 2012 Camber with the Roval control trail wheels, with 2 years of riding quite aggressively, I haven't had a single spoke break. I have never had the wheels tensioned or trued and have spokes with knicks in them from falls. I always say that if they haven't broken or buckled by now they never will.

 

I guess it is overdue to send them in for a once over, and I probably just jinxed myself and will break 10 spokes on my next ride.

 

Of the friends I ride with regularly, I am about the only one who hasn't buckled a 29er rim yet with the Rovals.

[Guest Smimby]

It will happen again.  That is typical with spoke fatigue - either breaking at the end of the thread in the nipple or in the J bend.  If more than one breaks it means they are all fatigued.  If your hub has less than 32 holes I wouldn't bother rebuilding on it - you will battle to get rims anyway.  If it is one with straight pull spokes I would also think twice before I reused it.  No one that I know of stocks double butted straight pull spokes of suitable length, so you would have to use straight guage spokes which will not solve the problem.

 

I am sorry but this does not sound correct.

 

The wheel is 1.5 years old, and I have had my 29er wheels now for 4 years and my front wheel is stil 100%

 

"If your hub has less than 32 holes I wouldn't bother rebuilding on it - you will battle to get rims anyway"

Why not, the OP has the RIM and the HUB, so he can still REBUILD it.

 

I am sorry, but getting straight pull double butted is not difficult either. DT Swiss makes them, just about every specialized shop has them also.

 

The main reason nipples break or a spoke break at the thread is CORROSION.

 

If you have a alu rim, and alu nipples they tend to corode quickly, OP just rebuild the wheels with BRASS nipples. Use a GOOD wheel builder and your wheels will last.

[Skinnyone]

It is always best that if you have broken 3 spokes or more then rebuild with new spokes and nipples. I have experienced that the alloy nipples often also fatigue and break as Mr Marshall has said.

 

I don't necessarily agree about corrosion on the spoke, nipple yes, but spokes are stainless steel to prevent corrosion, if it breaks at the threaded end, then the spokes used may have been a fraction short and don't go into the nipple all the way - then there is not enough support from the nipple and it will snap at the end of the thread.

[Guest Smimby]

It is always best that if you have broken 3 spokes or more then rebuild with new spokes and nipples. I have experienced that the alloy nipples often also fatigue and break as Mr Marshall has said.

 

I don't necessarily agree about corrosion on the spoke, nipple yes, but spokes are stainless steel to prevent corrosion, if it breaks at the threaded end, then the spokes used may have been a fraction short and don't go into the nipple all the way - then there is not enough support from the nipple and it will snap at the end of the thread.

Not all spoke are SS. Hence I said that some will break at the thread, because that is where the ALU nipple and ALU rim causes the corrosion.

[LazyTrailRider]

 

If you have a alu rim, and alu nipples they tend to corode quickly, OP just rebuild the wheels with BRASS nipples. Use a GOOD wheel builder and your wheels will last.

 

I can attest to this. Snapped a nipple on my Novatec Flowtrail rear wheel recently, when the rim tape was taken off, most of the alloy nipples showed signs of corrosion starting. Replaced them all with brass.

[camelman]

Thanks for the advice. I just wanted to see if others have had similar issues.  On MTBR.com there are a bunch of people having similar issues, so maybe it can just be attributed to a bad batch of spokes as well. 

 

I am also wondering if the ingredients in the Latex also has a chemical effect on the nipple/spoke bonding area.  I am no chemist, so just wondering.  

 

BTW even the Spez dealer here hates the Roval wheels for their lack of build quality.  He would rather sell me a set of ZTR wheels than Roval.  I am going to try and get it re-spoked with brass nipples, but if the rim is not going to hold up, then I will just replace the rim as well.

[David Marshall]

I am sorry but this does not sound correct.

 

The wheel is 1.5 years old, and I have had my 29er wheels now for 4 years and my front wheel is stil 100%

 

"If your hub has less than 32 holes I wouldn't bother rebuilding on it - you will battle to get rims anyway"

Why not, the OP has the RIM and the HUB, so he can still REBUILD it.

 

I am sorry, but getting straight pull double butted is not difficult either. DT Swiss makes them, just about every specialized shop has them also.

 

The main reason nipples break or a spoke break at the thread is CORROSION.

 

If you have a alu rim, and alu nipples they tend to corode quickly, OP just rebuild the wheels with BRASS nipples. Use a GOOD wheel builder and your wheels will last.

You are right, the wheel can be rebuilt but I wouldn’t recommend it. That is my opinion and it is based on the wheels I have worked on.  I would never recommend 28 spokes on a 29” MTB wheel, no matter what the rider weighs.  The flexion is considerable and your spokes and rim take the strain.  If you want a durable, repairable wheel (I mean economically repairable) stick to more spokes and J bend.  

 

As for spokes, all the main manufacturers make DB straight pull spokes.  Just try to get them locally in sufficient quantity, lengths, colours and profiles to build wheels.  Not going to happen.  You can get from some agents – in lengths specifically for their wheels - at a cost and usually an additional shipping cost and delay.  Put it to the test.  Phone around and see what you can get . 28 DB straight pull spokes in the two lengths and colour you want.

 

The same goes for the rims.  28 hole ones are hard (not impossible) to come by and you pay a premium.

 

Break a straight pull spoke during a stage race and you will end up with a straight gauge replacement (if you are lucky).  Buckle a 28 hole rim and you will buy a new wheel.

 

I beg to differ on the cause of spokes breaking at the nipple.  The primary cause is fatigue and not corrosion.  It happens with brass nipples as well.  The point where the thread ends is where the break occurs.  This will happen faster if the spoke length is not right or if you use straight gauge spokes.  There have been a number of threads covering nipples and spokes.

[Wyatt Earp]

Moral of the story, no machine can build a good wheel like a good wheel builder can, but saying that, I had a wheel with me last week that was hand built by some guru, in that case I will rather take the machine built wheel.

[droo]

I am sorry but this does not sound correct.

 

The wheel is 1.5 years old, and I have had my 29er wheels now for 4 years and my front wheel is stil 100%

 

"If your hub has less than 32 holes I wouldn't bother rebuilding on it - you will battle to get rims anyway"

Why not, the OP has the RIM and the HUB, so he can still REBUILD it.

 

I am sorry, but getting straight pull double butted is not difficult either. DT Swiss makes them, just about every specialized shop has them also.

 

The main reason nipples break or a spoke break at the thread is CORROSION.

 

If you have a alu rim, and alu nipples they tend to corode quickly, OP just rebuild the wheels with BRASS nipples. Use a GOOD wheel builder and your wheels will last.

 

Aluminium nipples fail because of galvanic corrosion between the spokes (SS) and nipples. Spokes fail because of fatigue. This is why I only build with brass nipples and butted spokes and stress relieve. If a wheel I've built goes out of true or snaps a spoke due to anything other than blunt force trauma, I'll fix it for free.