Delta Park - proposed clockwise-only direction

[cat-i]

There was a post on a facebook group (Johannesburg Social MTB Group

) about forcing a clockwise direction in delta Park to avoid conflict between riders and walkers. Apparently there was wide consultation with all park users before deciding on this solution.

 

Anyone know anything about this?

 

Would enforcing a direction solve the problem of speeding riders in a public space?

[Nancy Drew]

I wonder how they propose enforcing a rule like this is a public space? Seems a bit optimistic

[RossW]

Due to numerous episodes of conflict between walkers, runners, dog walkers and cyclists, an alternate or perhaps more appropriately named, "cycle route" was decided upon. I believe that numerous resident associations as well as JHB Parks were involved.

 

As I understand the plan, the cycle route is to be clearly marked as a cycle path which will hopefully keep walkers and so on out. Like wise, cyclists will be asked to stay within the cycle paths set aside for them. 

 

To see it as a rule is too limited in the sense. More like a way to keep everyone happy so we can all enjoy the park and our respective hobby and sport.

[Guest notmyname]

That cycle route is going to have some boss strava times that every oke and his epic will be Chasing. I predict the number of broken people delta has notched on her belt is about to increase.

[cat-i]

Due to numerous episodes of conflict between walkers, runners, dog walkers and cyclists, 

 

What type of incidents?

[RossW]

What type of incidents?

Several dogs have been hit or ridden over.

Dogs are known to chase cyclists and get overly enthusiast and perhaps attempt to bike edit: (bite) the cyclists foot or leg.

 

On the weekend I witnessed an elderly man deliberately walk into the path of two cyclists, shouting at them to slow down. This took place at the large car park on standard drive.

[nonky]

great thing about south Africans is that we are united by our mutual dislike of one another.

SMH

[cat-i]

Several dogs have been hit or ridden over.

Dogs are known to chase cyclists and get overly enthusiast and perhaps attempt to bike edit: (bite) the cyclists foot or leg.

On the weekend I witnessed an elderly man deliberately walk into the path of two cyclists, shouting at them to slow down. This took place at the large car park on standard drive.

I've seen a lot of cyclists riding like hooligans there ... it's a public space, not a bike park

[Dr Holiday]

I've seen a lot of cyclists riding like hooligans there ... it's a public space, not a bike park

long time lurker, first time commentator - could not agree with you more on this. I have been riding in DP for years, and the Stravassholes just don't get it

[Dr Holiday]

great thing about south Africans is that we are united by our mutual dislike of one another.

SMH

if I "Like" this post, is that self defeatist? Does that mean I like that we all don't like each other, which then means what? Hell man, I don't know anymore

[V12man]

Several dogs have been hit or ridden over.

Dogs are known to chase cyclists and get overly enthusiast and perhaps attempt to bike edit: (bite) the cyclists foot or leg.

 

Dogs MUST - according to the bylaws - be on a leash... if this was the case they would not chase cyclists...

 

Loose dogs and their owners should be banned from the park - they are both targets in my opinion - good luck with sorting that out.

[RossW]

Dogs MUST - according to the bylaws - be on a leash... if this was the case they would not chase cyclists...

Loose dogs and their owners should be banned from the park - they are both targets in my opinion - good luck with sorting that out.

I agree with you. Please don't see this as a stance in favour of either of the parties. I cycle and walk my dog at Delta Park.

 

A problem however develops on the 100% application of the city by-laws.

Reading the COJ - Public Open Spaces By-laws, the following can be found.

 

Chapter 3, paragraph 15

 

Vehicles

15. No person may within a public open space –

(a) except at times specified and on roads or pathways provided by the Council,

drive, draw or propel any vehicle other than a bicycle;

(b) drive, draw or propel a vehicle in excess of five kilometres per hour; or

(c ) park a vehicle in a public open space, except in designated area or other area

where parking is otherwise permitted by the Council.

 

INTERPRETATION AND FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES

Definitions and interpretation

 

“vehicle” means a device designed or adapted mainly to travel on wheels, but

excludes a wheelchair and children’s pushchair and perambulator;

 

I'm not familiar with legal writing, which as a result, I'm open to correction. This to me includes a bicycle as a vehicle and further then states that we should not be exceeding 5 km/h.

Am I researching the correct city by-law?

 

It really has to be a two-way street. One which I am happy to walk if it means I may continue to both ride and walk my dog at Delta.

 

EDIT:

Under Paragraph 15 (a). The creation of a defined cycle path may now fall under this definition. Thoughts?

In which case, it's a win for us cyclists in the eyes of the by-laws.

[V12man]

Under Paragraph 15 (a). The creation of a defined cycle path may now fall under this definition. Thoughts?

In which case, it's a win for us cyclists in the eyes of the by-laws.

There are existing paths within the public spaces - these must have been provided for by council.... they don't allow private track building, and actually go to some lengths to remove some technical obstacles, so I don't really see how creating a unidirectional path will be a win win at all - they will probably pave it - and the 5km/hour rule (assuming it applies to bicyles) will remain in place.

 

Now - more importanly - when are they providing a bike parking area so we can park our bikes - because vehicles must be parked in designated parking areas - I only see ones for cars...

[RossW]

There are existing paths within the public spaces - these must have been provided for by council.... they don't allow private track building, and actually go to some lengths to remove some technical obstacles, so I don't really see how creating a unidirectional path will be a win win at all - they will probably pave it - and the 5km/hour rule (assuming it applies to bicyles) will remain in place.

Now - more importanly - when are they providing a bike parking area so we can park our bikes - because vehicles must be parked in designated parking areas - I only see ones for cars...

I get the feeling that a lot of the cycle paths at Delta are not officially created but more a result of persistent use by cyclists. As you rightly point out, there are several constructed features on these paths which would surely have been authorised by council. Or they would have been destroyed by now.

The bermed section in the trees in the north of the park does however come to mind as a constructed track in comparison to the section cutting diagonally up from below the school grounds to the Standard Dr car park.

 

I'm not sure about the bike parking - I only park my bike in my man-cave at home.

 

It's going to be interesting to see how this all gets done though. I certainly don't have the answers.

 

Edit: some spelling and sloppy keyboard use.

[V12man]

I get the feeling that a lot of the cycle paths at Delta are not officially created but more a result of persistent use by cyclists. As you rightly point out, there are several constructed features on these paths which would surely have been authorised by council. Or they would have been destroyed by now.

The bermed section in the trees in the north of the park does however come to mind as a constructed track in comparison to the section cutting diagonally up from below the school grounds to the Standard Dr car park.

I'm not sure about the bike parking - I only park my bike in my man-cave at home.

It's going to be interesting to see how this all gets done though. I certainly don't have the answers.

Edit: some spelling and sloppy keyboard use.

The bermed section was created for a race (the Delta Dash), and my understanding is that it is a feature approved by council - Pieter is the person to ask - he should know. The diagonal to the parking lot has been around for over 20 years... must be council approved.

 

The reality is that there are many users of the park, and they should all have respect for the others usage - and try to avoid killing each other... unless it is a loose dogs owner - in which case aim at them.... the dogs never stay close...

[RossW]

The bermed section was created for a race (the Delta Dash), and my understanding is that it is a feature approved by council - Pieter is the person to ask - he should know. The diagonal to the parking lot has been around for over 20 years... must be council approved.

The reality is that there are many users of the park, and they should all have respect for the others usage - and try to avoid killing each other... unless it is a loose dogs owner - in which case aim at them.... the dogs never stay close...

A big thumbs up!