Baton defence?

[Pah Bear]

This discussion remind me of something that came up years ago when I started hiking. SNAKES and how to treat snake bite because everyone was scared of the slithers.

 

After much to and fro, a decision was taken to investigate the feasibility of carrying anti venom.

Then we learnt different snakes require different serums, so which ones to carry.

Then even if you have the right serum, you have to know how to administer it.

Then it was serums must be temperature controlled, so how do we do this.

Then, serums become outdated and thus useless over time.

 

When we looked at the stats on how many hikers actually get bitten, it became a case of learn how best to avoid being bitten and just enjoy the hike.

 

Been hiking since 1990, seen plenty snakes and not one incident of anyone being bitten.

 

Moral of the story. Spend the extra effort and learn how to stay safe without having to get into the real fight.

[Kalahari Vegmot]

MTB Machine Gun.JPG

Nee kyk, NOU praat ons!

Edit: Will come in real handy for those beemer drivers too...

[Jurgens Smit]

Regarding the firearm on the bike type thing, I spoke to a guy at Safari and Outdoor this morning and this guy recommends a Derrringer type pistol with 2 shots and a concealed hip holster.

 

1 Shot to warn the attackers and another to shoot if need be, normally they run after a warning shot.

 

The downside to this is you can't wear your lycra and need to wear those fugly baggy shorts and loose shirts

 

 

 

 

[Odinson]

This discussion remind me of something that came up years ago when I started hiking. SNAKES and how to treat snake bite because everyone was scared of the slithers.

 

After much to and fro, a decision was taken to investigate the feasibility of carrying anti venom.

Then we learnt different snakes require different serums, so which ones to carry.

Then even if you have the right serum, you have to know how to administer it.

Then it was serums must be temperature controlled, so how do we do this.

Then, serums become outdated and thus useless over time.

 

When we looked at the stats on how many hikers actually get bitten, it became a case of learn how best to avoid being bitten and just enjoy the hike.

 

Been hiking since 1990, seen plenty snakes and not one incident of anyone being bitten.

 

Moral of the story. Spend the extra effort and learn how to stay safe without having to get into the real fight.

 

[dave303e]

To Quote Mike Tyson in Tour de Pharmacy-

"Cyclists are incredible endurance athletes, but majority of them fight like little bitches"

[Odinson]

To Quote Mike Tyson in Tour de Pharmacy-

"Cyclists are incredible endurance athletes, but majority of them fight like little bitches"

 

NO. 

 

This is what he said:

 

 

 

"Thyclisth are incredible enduranthe athleteth, but majority of them fight like little bitcheth"

[scubes]

ha I like my baggy shorts and cycling t-shirts. but a derringer with only 2 shots is very limiting. i'd rather use this under my t-shirt with a FA with slightly more capacity-

 

http://guns-tactics.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/defender-belt-6.jpg

 

Regarding the firearm on the bike type thing, I spoke to a guy at Safari and Outdoor this morning and this guy recommends a Derrringer type pistol with 2 shots and a concealed hip holster.

 

1 Shot to warn the attackers and another to shoot if need be, normally they run after a warning shot.

 

The downside to this is you can't wear your lycra and need to wear those fugly baggy shorts and loose shirts

 

257d205a0d92b166f64768ea1884ff9c.jpg

Derringer.jpg

[Letum911]

Regarding the firearm on the bike type thing, I spoke to a guy at Safari and Outdoor this morning and this guy recommends a Derrringer type pistol with 2 shots and a concealed hip holster.

 

1 Shot to warn the attackers and another to shoot if need be, normally they run after a warning shot.

 

The downside to this is you can't wear your lycra and need to wear those fugly baggy shorts and loose shirts

 

257d205a0d92b166f64768ea1884ff9c.jpg

Derringer.jpg

A 2 round limit against most probably a SAPS provided 9mm with a 13+ round count, depending on the make and model, is like pissing against the wind!! Also this is on the assumption that one is attacked by a single perp, which is not the norm as far as I've read. Normally 3+.

[Jurgens Smit]

ha I like my baggy shorts and cycling t-shirts. but a derringer with only 2 shots is very limiting. i'd rather use this under my t-shirt with a FA with slightly more capacity-

 

http://guns-tactics.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/defender-belt-6.jpg

 

 

A 2 round limit against most probably a SAPS provided 9mm with a 13+ round count, depending on the make and model, is like pissing against the wind!! Also this is on the assumption that one is attacked by a single perp, which is not the norm as far as I've read. Normally 3+.

 

Much harder to conceal a bigger weapon, and will limit your ROM when ccling with anything bigger.

 

I agree 2 shots are not ideal, but they don't know that so it's still better than nothing.

 

Also, not all attackers have firearms, most have knives/clubs/sticks etc.

 

There comes a point where you have to compromise, can't have your bread buttered on both sides.

[Martin PJ]

Much harder to conceal a bigger weapon, and will limit your ROM when ccling with anything bigger.

 

I agree 2 shots are not ideal, but they don't know that so it's still better than nothing.

 

Also, not all attackers have firearms, most have knives/clubs/sticks etc.

 

There comes a point where you have to compromise, can't have your bread buttered on both sides.

 

I think you make two good points.

 

Firstly, if you are not prepared to carry a firearm (maybe because you don't know what you are doing), you need to have something to defend against a big knife / club / stick, which means some kind of baton.

 

Second, whatever you decide to carry (gun, baton, knife, pepper spray), it will be a compromise based on your assessment on the kind of trouble you expect to face.

[Mikejk]

When faced by one or two would be attackers carrying long blade knives it is very intimidating! A baton will be useless....most cyclists will be petrified and their first reaction will be to run. After all were not all black belt karate exponents able to defend ourselves effectively.

 

If one decides to run....fine.

 

The only way (for most) to engage these criminals is with a firearm. Its a consciencious decision to use a firearm in such a situation and one needs to make a split of the moment decision together with this consciencious decision to use the firearm.

 

In a conflict situation if one decides to draw the firearm be 100% prepared to use it effectively ie to shoot the assailant/s. If not back off and run. Waving a firearm around and threatening to shoot a would be attacker is the worst possible thing to do as emotions run abnormally high and one can end up shooting a person accidentally in the heat of the moment. The consequences can be dire whereas one could have backed off effectively.

 

Bottom line is only carry a firearm and draw it if you are prepared to use it.

[Jurgens Smit]

When faced by one or two would be attackers carrying long blade knives it is very intimidating! A baton will be useless....most cyclists will be petrified and their first reaction will be to run. After all were not all black belt karate exponents able to defend ourselves effectively.

 

If one decides to run....fine.

 

The only way (for most) to engage these criminals is with a firearm. Its a consciencious decision to use a firearm in such a situation and one needs to make a split of the moment decision together with this consciencious decision to use the firearm.

 

In a conflict situation if one decides to draw the firearm be 100% prepared to use it effectively ie to shoot the assailant/s. If not back off and run. Waving a firearm around and threatening to shoot a would be attacker is the worst possible thing to do as emotions run abnormally high and one can end up shooting a person accidentally in the heat of the moment. The consequences can be dire whereas one could have backed off effectively.

 

Bottom line is only carry a firearm and draw it if you are prepared to use it.

 

I believe it is in your best interest to fire a warning shot first (if possible).

[Pah Bear]

Ever wonder how situations get escalated? Want to draw an analogy. Whatever the multiple reasons for farm murders, one of the reasons proffered is the assured knowledge that there will be firearms available. And that’s what it appears many are after. The presence of these weapons have not necessarily reduced the incident rate, rather the opposite (I know – it’s debatable).

 

Attacks on cyclists have been on the increase and without knowing the exact why’s, is it perhaps because our equipment is worth so much and people have become aware of this, and/or the fact that it’s become “normal” nowadays for 99% of us to carry cell phones, another attraction.

 

 

Imagine when it becomes known that cyclists are carrying firearms? My word they already so brazen they burgle police stations.

 

Just a thought.

[Letum911]

It is in your best interest to fire a warning shot first (if possible).

 

If you can't prove your life was in danger (ie about to die if you don't act first) and you just shot somebody you will go to jail for murder.

 

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/laws-governing-shooting-in-self-defence-1785571

 

I disagree as the situation will dictate the charge and the case (if you are charged). Should you fire a warning shot, and the attackers run, you stand a chance of being charged with firing a FA in a residential area as well as the possibility of attempted murder.

 

Most FA owners (hopefully all) know that you can only draw and use your FA in the case where your life is threatened or where you perceive same to be threatened. In my opinion if there are two machete wielding gentlemen in the road requesting you to pull over and stop for a second is that they are not there to butter bread. Therefore 2 machete's = life in danger IMO. 

 

Once again, the circumstances will dictate but just cause you shot someone where you feared for your life, whether it was truly in danger is not always the deciding factor, does not mean that you will automatically go to jail for murder. For instance, a massive guy swinging a sword is not necessarily such a large threat as a small guy trained in sword fighting. At the same time can a small martial arts expert kill you without any weapons. Hence the circumstances will dictate.

[Letum911]

Ever wonder how situations get escalated? Want to draw an analogy. Whatever the multiple reasons for farm murders, one of the reasons proffered is the assured knowledge that there will be firearms available. And that’s what it appears many are after. The presence of these weapons have not necessarily reduced the incident rate, rather the opposite (I know – it’s debatable).

 

Attacks on cyclists have been on the increase and without knowing the exact why’s, is it perhaps because our equipment is worth so much and people have become aware of this, and/or the fact that it’s become “normal” nowadays for 99% of us to carry cell phones, another attraction.

 

 

Imagine when it becomes known that cyclists are carrying firearms? My word they already so brazen they burgle police stations.

 

Just a thought.

 

My view on it differs fairly significantly. Cyclists are largely targeted for the bikes, see the various pieces written on syndicates, and secondly targeted for the cellphones. At the same time cyclists and runners are seen as easy targets as they are in many cases sole trainers with little to nothing to defend themselves. 

 

If ALL cyclists carry FA's, you do run the risk of them being a new niche target, but at the same time it is much easier targeting a bunny than a porcupine.

 

RE the farm attacks: The firearms are a bonus, but the main motivation is that it is an easy target and that can be caught by surprise.

 

In the end attacks/robberies are fueled by the possibility of financial gain, therefore largely items that is easy to sell

[Jurgens Smit]

I disagree as the situation will dictate the charge and the case (if you are charged). Should you fire a warning shot, and the attackers run, you stand a chance of being charged with firing a FA in a residential area as well as the possibility of attempted murder.

 

Most FA owners (hopefully all) know that you can only draw and use your FA in the case where your life is threatened or where you perceive same to be threatened. In my opinion if there are two machete wielding gentlemen in the road requesting you to pull over and stop for a second is that they are not there to butter bread. Therefore 2 machete's = life in danger IMO. 

 

Once again, the circumstances will dictate but just cause you shot someone where you feared for your life, whether it was truly in danger is not always the deciding factor, does not mean that you will automatically go to jail for murder. For instance, a massive guy swinging a sword is not necessarily such a large threat as a small guy trained in sword fighting. At the same time can a small martial arts expert kill you without any weapons. Hence the circumstances will dictate.

 

The point of that post was not to start a legal argument, and it may be a bit badly worded.

 

Both my dad and I are big into our FA's. I have been taught about gun safety since I was about 4. I myself do practical pistol and he is more into Bisley and Hunting. So I honestly believe in most cases a warning will suffice in scaring the would be attackers away, but it is as you said the circumstances should dictate your actions. I think there is a common misconception among new FA owners what you can (and can't) legally do and how you should approach situations involving self defense.

 

Personally I would rather take my chances with public discharge of a FA than shooting someone without witnesses present and the story gets turned into guy shoots unarmed person for no reason. Those cases also exist.