youngsters depart for europe

[buckstopper]

Lem, so what if they stop. They stop because it loses its allure, other challenges arise. It's the same in all sport, kids are lost to sport. So what. There are opportunities for them to race, let them if they want to. What I think you're saying is that the kids start too early, are maybe pushed too hard and then leave the sport. Are you saying that competitive cycling for kids u16 and younger should be discontinued? 

[THE BODY CENTRE]

I might be wrong - but I think there are 2 conversations in this thread?

 

One about the Mr Price youngsters off to Europe for 6 weeks. (Which i think is quite feasible and a great experenience for them)

And the other about junior cyclists in general doing homeschooling for the specific aim to pursue cycling (which i think is the group Groot Lem is referring to?)

[Sean Badenhorst]

 

Correct Ronelle.

 

If Cycling South Africa had a decent youth cycling system, the second theme wouldn't be popping up here because there would be a proper (sponsored) national academy with full-time staff nurturing the talented youngsters AND managing their education.

 

But since we don't have this (yet), people like Jill, through her Mr Price Youth Academy, are doing the next best thing and enabling promising young cyclists to see what international racing is all about. That way, they'll be able to see first hand just how tough and competitive it is out there. A few will shine and become successful Elites and the rest will be richer for the experience as they pursue an alternative career.

 

But today, now, they are talented cyclists and for them, this is an amazing experience that may never come around again. I say let them take three weeks off school to broaden their cycling skills - and life skills. Life skills is something that's only touched on at schools these days, but so very important to every single school lever no matter what path they choose.

 

I agree with buckstopper in that cycling at a high level requires discipline, commitment, sacrifice and a high work ethic. All admirable qualities that usually stay with those individuals whether they pursue cycling or sales or graphic design as a career.

 

Lem, you're introducing a whole new topic, which is also very relevant, but not unique to cycling. Look at swimming and track and field. Most of the registered competitive swimmers and track/field athletes in SA are at school or completing their tertiary education. How many of those go on to become professionals? A handful.

 

These sports need a big youth base to reveal the super talented ones. And not all of those super talents go on to become pro. But if they didn't get opportunities as youngsters, we'd have and even fewer stars shining in the Elite ranks...

 

 

Sean Badenhorst2008-05-29 13:15:53

[Sean Badenhorst]

Originally posted by Porky

 

Originally posted by Sean Badenhorst

 

Originally posted by kingjreid

 

 

And why do people still talk about 'having something to fall back on'? That's so 20th Century.

Surely you set your sights on something and achieve it. If you don't

achieve it, try harder, try again or aim for something else to achieve.

Imagine living your whole life having 'fallen back on something' that

you don't enjoy... Sad.

 

They talk about it because its important.!Some old school points still hold water.!

 

I dont agree, kids of 15/16 cant even set their sights on next weeks dinner, let alone a life goal.

 

How many of these kids make it into the big league??

 

Give me numbers.??

 

1 maybe 2 ????

 

What about the others......................no education, means

no future, so unless they feel like flipping burgers at Macdonalds for

the rest of their lives its a bad call.

 

As a parent I would NEVER allow my youngster to forfeit her future

on a whim. When she has a full and complete education, she can do what

she likes, but until then - NO WAY.!

 

So Porky, you're saying that if your daughter was really talented at a sport or an art (singing, dancing, acting, music) she should wait until she's about 22 to pursue it properly - once she's got 'something to fall back on'. Too late. World class talent is nurtured early. Imagine if Roger Federer's folks had that same attitude...

 

Sure, the kids that are clearly not super-talented (but can't see it) should be guided in a more historically stable direction. But the ones that really have talent should be given all the right opportunities and given the relevant support. Three weeks off school once a year is hardly going to compromise a kid's education.

[Chrispy]

It's all about choices.

 

We all have different opinions and beliefs so we will never get the "right" answer.

 

Generation X vs the Baby Boomers.

 

I have no problem in youngsters chasing their dreams - just be careful that it is not the parents dreams!

 

Home schooling works for some and maybe not for others. My opinion is that you finish school in a structured manner - attending classes of some sort. Social interaction and structure has never hurt anyone.

 

If a youngster wants to test themself against the world, it is the only way they are going to find out if they belong there.

 

Listened to Kepler Wessels the other day and he is of the opinion that if you want to make it in the world of profesional sport today, you got to start specializing at the age of 12!!!!!Seems a bit harsh but when did Ernie,Trevor,Retief,Rooney,Giggs start showing promise? You guessed it.12 years old.

 

A nice conversation topic but let's not hijack the thread. Good luck to the youngsters of Mr Price. And most important go and enjoy yourself.

 

 

[Sean Badenhorst]

Originally posted by kingjreid

 

the thing is that i've heard it from the very best in our country in

road cycling, and he is at a loss with what to do with his life. Heck,

i just don't want those kids to end up like him.

 

 

If he's 'the very best in our country in road cycling', then it's his own fault if he doesn't have a succession plan. This topic is about talented teenagers, not established pros that haven't been thinking ahead. What he's facing is just another challenge of being an adult, faced by millions every day. Maybe an attitude change will help him with his impending career change...

 

 

 

[linnega]

Agree with your thoughts to a limited extent Sean.  The problem with both arguments here is that they are gross generalisations.  Some kids are able to be disciplined and strive to achieve defined goals from a young age.  Others are "not able to focus on next week's dinner".  Each needs to be treated differently.  However, kids should not be prevented from trying to achieve their dreams, from whatever age, and they should always be building their education, every year.  If they can handle home schooling then thats fine, but that decision cannot be theirs as they don't have the maturity to make such a decision (a generalisation but probably representative of 99.9% of 15 yo). 

 

I also don't think you should limit the opportunities to the "super-talented", because many of these super talents don't develop as well as the average talents.  I just need to look at two kids playing tennis when I was at school.  Wesley Moodie was average here in KZN, whereas Jeff Coetzee was the super talent.  Wes has achieved far more than Jeff although both are decent pro's, but if you had applied your criteria to him when he left school, he would never have been given the opportunities and never achieved what he has.

 

[porky]

Sean, theres thousands, if not millions of kids who are good tennis players,...............theres only one Roger Federer.!

 

By the same token theres thousands if not millions of kids who are talented with numbers.........................and theres thousands of CAs.

 

Ever wondered why there are more academics than sportsmen?

 

Its a gene pool thing, look down a great athletes family tree, guaranteed, you will find talent in the gene pool somewhere,sure there will be exceptions, but they are a rarity and not the rule.

 

Kids can LEARN to be professional academics and make a success of their lives, its very unlikely they can ever LEARN to be professional athletes.!

 

.............if my daughtet wants to tool around Europe on a bike, she can ask and I will take her over December vacations  - its not the three weeks away from school that bothers me, its the bulls***t that you dont need an education if you want - (we can debate what a 12 year knows about life for ages as well) - to be a pro athlete, and generally this is  perpetuated by adults who should know better.

 

I agree with Groot L, a child prodigy in any sphere of life including sport will rise to the top in an instant, thats great, nurture it, but for the majority and thats 99.999% of kids, educate youself, play your sport and enjoy it as a hobby - if you are still serious at 19.............thats differant!    

  

[Witrot]

Its pretty simpel actually. If you can't stay in school and cycle, how you going to go thru rest of life. Its all part of grow up process. Yes, its hard to ful fill your dream, especially if you are good at it and still cont with school. But it learn you great characteristics you need for life. And you don't know where life might take you. I have seen many great riders, stop school and later stop cycling cause they are pushed to hard and they don't like it anymore when they reach 18/19 years of age and actually then realise there is other stuff in life but can't do it, cause they lack the education!! Well done on the parents that pushed them and they reach less then the bloke who didn't do anything at school really, but at least made grade 12 and can cont varsity.

 

This past weekend was the varsity world champs in holland. If they can do it with the times and competitiveness they have done then there is no excuse to stop school cause you want to cycle as pro even at young level. Phen earlier also talk about same expierence he had, its not worth it. He at least could catch up, but he is one of the handful guys that is able to do so.

 

But to go for couple weeks on tour is nothing wrong, they still get some education and can cont a dream.....you and me or they will never know what they going to do in 4 years time, at least they have a choice instead of just cycling or nothing. Therefore thanx to antie Jill and co for doing it this in the way they have.

 

Anycase... For this thread purpose. Good luck to you Mr Price lot, hope it wil go great and kick some ass!!

[gianni]

HEY !!!!!!!

Can we get back to the REAL topic....i.e "youngsters depart for europe"

Can you tell me where in Ireland they will be ?

 

If they're close enough I could go take a few pics.

 

Thanks!

 

 

p.s School sucks

gianni2008-05-29 15:37:43

[widget]

"OH" come on Sean!!.

 

I cant believe an educated intelligent man like yourself believes kids of 12  should be just "willy nilly" allowed to follow their dream.!

 

When I was 12 I wanted to be a Circus Clown, thank goodness my parents didnt let me flunck out of school and follow my dream.

 

My wife and I do work with a Christian missionary school that takes in youngsters with problems.

Some of them have addictions, some have run away from abusive parents and families, some are habitual criminals, some are struggeling with teenage pregnancy, some are suicidal, but whatever the individual problem there is one common thread amonst ALL of them,.................. a poor education.!   

 

Ask any of the social workers there and they will tell you, a formalised school backround teaches kids more than reading and writing skills, it teaches them self worth that lasts their entire life.

 

Why do so many professional athletes, (especially cyclists) suffer with addictions and low self esteem when they retire??

 

In most cases its because their self worth is based on riding a bicycle fast up a hill, but when the lights go out and nobody is asking for your autograph anymore, thats barely enough.!!!

 

 

[shifter]

if they've been doing it for a few years now' date=' I would

like to see the list of , lets say 3 years ago, where are those kids

now? How many are still racing, and how well?

I predict that a max of 2 kids will be racing when they elite. I

would rather the kid just enjoy he cycling, and get serious last year

junior. Or they will be part of the 400 u 16 SA champs of the last 30

years that stopped age 19.

[/quote']

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly my sentiments, if they do get to 2nd year Juniors, most of them

have such BIG HEADS with unreal attitudes, no Pro team even considers

them...

 

[Canaris]

SOme interesting opinions here.  Most are unfortunately based on very narrow personal experiences of schooling.  Every child is diferent and some have to sit every day in a class room to learn.  Some others can sleep for six weeks straight and still perform.  My oldest brother had a nasty habit of reading the setwork books only after he had passed the exams.  My other brother, just as intelligent (and now has a PhD, MBA, BSC(Hons) worked very hard.  (and did better academically).  However, even from personal experience you can bunk weeks at varsity and still get first class passes.

 

So six weeks missed of reading writing and rithmatic (3Rs) can be caught up.  But six weeks in a foreign country discovering diferent cultures, being pushed to your physical limits away from mommy and daddy, now that is priceless.  (I only got to do that later in life- almost got shot as well-  but that is another story for another night ride).

 

 

[butafly]

let the youngsters play sport for fun, the results shouldn't count. they have just done a study in UK, there the youngsters are playing soccer on normal sized fields from u10 and in leagues whereas in europe they play five aside on small fields and they dont keep tally of the goals scored but encourage paricipation and keeping the ball. the uk have just realsied the reason why their international palyers are not comfortable on the ball as their european counterparts. wrt to cycling imho let the youngsters ride for fun from u10 to u14 ie no prize money, no SA jersey, no champs.they can start doing that from u16's. this imho wont be to their detriment. fast kids will always be fast kids.

[Sean Badenhorst]

Originally posted by widget:

 

"OH" come on Sean!!.

 

I cant believe an educated intelligent man like yourself believes

kids of 12  should be just "willy nilly" allowed to follow their dream.!

 

When I was 12 I wanted to be a Circus Clown, thank goodness my parents didnt let me flunck out of school and follow my dream.

 

I didn't say that, widget. I'm saying that talented kids should be given opportunities to grow those talents, even if it means missing school for a few weeks, or in some cases, repeating a year or even two. I'm not saying they shouldn't go to school or finish school. I'm saying they shouldn't be denied the chance to improve themselves in other areas other than those that are traditionally accepted.

 

Just because cycling isn't a school sport, doesn't mean those kids should be denied a chance to race abroad for a few weeks. If it was a school rugby tour where they missed three weeks of the school term, would it be more acceptable?

 

Don't you sometimes wish you'd been able to follow your dream to become a circus clown? You might have made a very good clown. But now you'll never know...

 

[GFishy]

If someone has the discipline to excel in sport, they will apply it to schoolwork...

 

At varsity if you were competing for the varsity they would normally arrange for you to write exams etc before you leave for the event etc...