The green death strikes again...

[Johan Bornman]

 

There is nothing inherently better in a Chris King hub than any other quality hub. Chris King made a name by being one of the first to use cartridge bearings in his hubs. He has a different pawl mechanism in there but again' date=' it isn't inherently better than other pawls used by Shimano and Campag. In fact, it comes with its own problems.

[/quote']


Please elaborate here. I ask because the last time we discussed the internals of Chris King hubs you clearly didn't have any idea how they worked...?

And again, they don't use a pawl mechanism at all. Perhaps I need to post that explosion diagram of the internals for you again...?

 

Correction: It should have read: He has a different RATCHET mechanism in there, which isn't inherently better than a pawl ratchet.

 

I don't recall our last conversation about this, but then again, I don't know where my car keys are either. It may have had to do with how many points of engagement the hub has. Some hubs engage on only say 12 positions per rotation whereas others claim to be better because they engage in every one degree or whatever the case may be.

 

In my opinion this doesn't solve a problem I, or most other cyclists have.

 

As for the rest of the hub, if it is strong enough, it is strong enough. If it is serviceable, it is serviceable. If the bearings can be replaced, they can be replaced.

[Flippa]

I have the new XT hubs with the 6 bolt adapter. Had no issues and the 30 odd grams per adapter really hasn't had any negative effect on the performance of the wheels

[MintSauce]

 

 

There is nothing inherently better in a Chris King hub than any other quality hub. Chris King made a name by being one of the first to use cartridge bearings in his hubs. He has a different pawl mechanism in there but again' date=' it isn't inherently better than other pawls used by Shimano and Campag. In fact, it comes with its own problems.

[/quote']

 

 

Please elaborate here. I ask because the last time we discussed the internals of Chris King hubs you clearly didn't have any idea how they worked...?

 

And again, they don't use a pawl mechanism at all. Perhaps I need to post that explosion diagram of the internals for you again...?

 

 

 

 

Correction: It should have read: He has a different RATCHET mechanism in there, which isn't inherently better than a pawl ratchet.

 

I don't recall our last conversation about this, but then again, I don't know where my car keys are either. It may have had to do with how many points of engagement the hub has. Some hubs engage on only say 12 positions per rotation whereas others claim to be better because they engage in every one degree or whatever the case may be.

 

In my opinion this doesn't solve a problem I, or most other cyclists have.

 

As for the rest of the hub, if it is strong enough, it is strong enough. If it is serviceable, it is serviceable. If the bearings can be replaced, they can be replaced.

 

In other words...."I don't actually know how Chris King hubs work, but I'll just assume they're like anything else and based on that assumption I'll make false claims about their reliability and performance"

 

Love your work Johan!

 

 

 

 

[Johan Bornman]

In other words...."I don't actually know how Chris King hubs work' date=' but I'll just assume they're like anything else and based on that assumption I'll make false claims about their reliability and performance"

Love your work Johan!


[/quote']

 

Please don't put words in my mouth. If there was something specific you wanted me to address, ask a specific question and don't bitch when you get a general answer to a general question.

 

I made NO claims about this hub's reliability or performance and if you feel I had done so, please point me to the offending line.

 

All hubs "perform" equally, they transmit torque to the tyres via the flange, spokes and rims with brutal efficiency. If they don't break and don't leak and don't squeak, they're good.

 

What is it you want to know? And, try and be

[MintSauce]

 

In other words...."I don't actually know how Chris King hubs work' date=' but I'll just assume they're like anything else and based on that assumption I'll make false claims about their reliability and performance"

 

Love your work Johan!

 

 

[/quote']

 

Please don't put words in my mouth. If there was something specific you wanted me to address, ask a specific question and don't bitch when you get a general answer to a general question.

 

I made NO claims about this hub's reliability or performance and if you feel I had done so, please point me to the offending line.

 

All hubs "perform" equally, they transmit torque to the tyres via the flange, spokes and rims with brutal efficiency. If they don't break and don't leak and don't squeak, they're good.

 

What is it you want to know? And, try and be

 

 

 

The one thing you've

said on this forum that is simply beyond dispute is that I don't like

you.

 

You come onto this forum and spread whatever it is you want as the

unquestionable gospel of cycling. Now I don't argue that you know a hell of a

lot about cycling and bikes. I also wouldn't argue that you know more than

me.

 

I do however take exception to the fact that you think you know

EVERYTHING! To the point that on occasion you have argued your case blindly even

in the face of indisputable evidence, like here https://www.bikehub.co.za/forum_posts.asp?TID=20865&KW=chris+king&PN=8

 

I find arrogant

know-it-alls to be rather annoying. This is why I don't like you.

 

On this thread

you have once again done just this, saying things like "There is nothing

inherently better in a Chris King hub than any other quality hub. Chris King

made a name by being one of the first to use cartridge bearings in his hubs. He

has a different pawl mechanism in there but again, it isn't inherently better

than other pawls used by Shimano and Campag" when the fact is that just about

every expert in the industry has cited them as making by far the best quality

hubs and headsets on the planet.

 

Will cheaper hubs do the job as you

so glibly remark? Yes, but that's like saying a Tata is as good as a BMW because

either one can get you from point A to B.

 

You are undoubtetdly wise when

it comes to things related to cycling. Try not let it go to your head and now

and then make sure you have your facts straight before posting your

gospel

 

 

 

 

 

[NC_lurker]

soooo, I wonder where that green death was...

[HomerSimpson]

soooo' date=' I wonder where that green death was...[/quote']

 

Yessss...my point exactly

[Johan Bornman]

The one thing you've said on this forum that is simply beyond dispute is that I don't like you.

You come onto this forum and spread whatever it is you want as the unquestionable gospel of cycling. Now I don't argue that you know a hell of a lot about cycling and bikes. I also wouldn't argue that you know more than me.

I do however take exception to the fact that you think you know EVERYTHING! To the point that on occasion you have argued your case blindly even in the face of indisputable evidence, like here https://www.bikehub.co.za/forum_posts.asp?TID=20865&KW=chris+king&PN=8

 

I find arrogant know-it-alls to be rather annoying. This is why I don't like you.

 

On this thread you have once again done just this, saying things like "There is nothing inherently better in a Chris King hub than any other quality hub. Chris King made a name by being one of the first to use cartridge bearings in his hubs. He has a different pawl mechanism in there but again, it isn't inherently better than other pawls used by Shimano and Campag" when the fact is that just about every expert in the industry has cited them as making by far the best quality hubs and headsets on the planet.

 

Will cheaper hubs do the job as you so glibly remark? Yes, but that's like saying a Tata is as good as a BMW because either one can get you from point A to B.

You are undoubtetdly wise when it comes to things related to cycling. Try not let it go to your head and now and then make sure you have your facts straight before posting your gospel

[/quote']

 

The missing word was "civil"....but I suppose I'm too late now.

 

Please don't liken my writing to gospel. I substantiate everything I debate, unlike religion where you're just supposed to believe and not question. You're welcome to question what I write and like many who have done so,  you may be surprised that I'm not afraid of a retraction or correction.

 

Now, back to the ball. I glibly stated that "Chris King hubs are not inherently better than any other quality hub. I didn't say "Chris King hubs are just as good as any hub that will get you from point A to B.  Remember those comprehension tests you did in Standard 6 and 7? They were for a purpose. As I've asked before, please DONT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

 

Allow me to rephrase what I said: CK hubs are not inherently better than a top-end Shimano, Campag or other quality brand's top-end hub. Note that I didn't change my story, just left less room for misinterpretation by my mischievious antagonists.

 

Back to Chris King. You say Chris King was one of the first to put a cartridge bearing into a hub. You say it like it is a great invention? Suntour had patents on that long before Chris King came on the scene. In fact, Suntour's patents expired before CK came to market. Nevertheless, cartridge bearings are not necessarilly better than cup-and-cone bearings. We've been through that before and I have no doubt that you've lurked or participated in that debate.

 

Cartrdige bearings suffer from water intrusion just like cup-and cone bearings. I've also explained on numerous occasions how the single wiper seal in cartridge bearings are not enough to separate two fuilds (grease and water) but that a neutral zone with drainage is needed between two seals. This is where the outer labyrinth seal comes in. All hubs are only splash proof and not submersible. No matter if there is a cartridge or cone and balls inside.

 

I question your use of "experts". Who are these people? Magazine editors and hacks? Hah! But citing that experts say so isn't good enough. Lets find out why they say so. What makes one hub better than another? I have a list of bullet points in an older post in this thread. Would you like to add some to that before we start weighing up one over the other? Speak now or forever hold your peace.

 

I don't know where headsets come into this. Perhaps you want to start another thread on that. They have their own problems, very few of which have similarities to that hubs experience.

Also, may I suggest, for clarity sake, that you start another parallel thread where you cite all the reasons you don't like me. I'll keep out of that one. Then, we can focus on the  issue at hand: the myths around the incredible quality of Chris King hubs. It'll keep this thread free of rhetoric and vitriol.

 

We can then go into the merits of the two opposing ratchet mechanisms and seals and hopefully, some of the other items on my checklist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mountain_lion]

I had the unfortunate encounter on the southern side of Jonkershoek. Lesser used than the northern side, but gets enough bike traffic.

 

Not a lush green patch as you sometimes get on unused trails, but just enough to cause a problem on a damp day combined with some pilot error.

Had I rolled the rut (which would have been possible) and not jumped it as I did or had it been a dry day, I would not have had a problem.

Guess it was not a perfect landing either.

 

I would not label the spot as generally dangerous.

 

 

[MintSauce]

 

Please don't liken my writing to gospel. I substantiate everything I debate, unlike religion where you're just supposed to believe and not question. You're welcome to question what I write and like many who have done so,  you may be surprised that I'm not afraid of a retraction or correction.

[/quote']

Did you click the link I posted in my previous

post? How about starting there with a retraction?

 

 

Now, back to the ball. I glibly stated that "Chris King hubs are

not inherently better than any other quality hub. I didn't say "Chris

King hubs are just as good as any hub that will get you from point A to

B.  Remember those comprehension tests you did in Standard 6 and 7?

They were for a purpose. As I've asked before, please DONT PUT WORDS IN

MY MOUTH.

 

 

Allow me to rephrase what I said: CK hubs are not inherently

better than a top-end Shimano, Campag or other quality brand's top-end

hub. Note that I didn't change my story, just left less room for

misinterpretation by my mischievious antagonists. 

[/quote']

 

So what is the difference between the three different versions of the sentence you've come up with thus far? And how did I put words in your mouth? Your rephrase is no different and neither is the meaning of what I said. There's nothing wrong with my

comprehension and there's no misinterpretation. I think you missed my point. That being, that if you even

bothered to take a look at Chris King's products before claiming that they're of

equal quality to other hubs, you wouldn't have made that claim in the first

place.

 

Furthermore, originally I simply asked

why you stated that Chris King was not inherently better than other hubs and why

you said that the CK drive mechanism has problems of it's own when the fact is

that you don't even know how the internals work or look.

 

 

Back to Chris King. You say Chris King was one of the first to put

a cartridge bearing into a hub. You say it like it is a great

invention?

[/quote']

 

I don't believe I ever said such a thing....perhaps you're confusing me

with someone else?

 

 

 

 

It'll keep this

thread free of rhetoric

[/quote']

 

If you want less of that, why not just stop posting

it. You asked me to explain my post and that I did....without your

abovementioned rhetoric or your prefered sarcasm and underhanded insults, which are quite childish by the way.

 

The only thing you've proven(to me if not anyone

else) is exactly why I don't like you. And I don't need to start a thread about

it either. There's no discussion needed on the matter. As for

vitriol....well....I used to be very nice, too nice to tell people exactly what

I thought. These days I prefer to call a spade a spade. If you're going to post nonsense, expect to be called out on it.

 

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

OK so I made the effort to read 5 pages of mostly crap ! WTF is wrong here ? I really think personal issues should be sorted out by either meeting behind the school hall or by PM . We should leave behaviour like that to the roadies !

[linnega]

D-R, Pops and GO are far better behaved than these two.  If they were women a few choice cat noises would be appropriate.

[mountain_lion]

 

OK so I made the effort to read 5 pages of mostly crap ! WTF is wrong here ? I really think personal issues should be sorted out by either meeting behind the school hall or by PM . We should leave behaviour like that to the roadies !

 

Fully agree DR.

 

While I encourage technical debate rather than just accepting what ever is posted, these personal attacks are not called for.

If it has to be a public fight, rather than resolved by PM or other medium, go start your own thread!