Road cassette advice needed.

[Paul Ruinaard]

1 hour ago, love2fly said:

I weigh 105kg and have only ever cried for an easier gear when I rode the Jock in 2000 on a 9 speed and some time after up Hekpoort on the same bike. I've never believed in compact as it dulls the advantage of performance of a road bike by making you spin out too soon. I have 2 rear wheels with a 28 and a 27 and I never let myself use them. I stop at 2nd gear. Not sure of your full circumstances but unless you've got health issue or are are less than undertrained you should get by with what you've got. 

Hmm most coaches and power meters would disagree with you on that, but hey everyone to their own.

FWIW I have been on bikes for over 25 years and have been from 89 to 118kgs and have always been able to achieve much higher leg speed through training than anyone else. Training leg speed and high cadence high power workouts are by far the most painful but also using a power meter you produce far more power at high cadence than at lower cadence with a given load. Try it sometime. Secondly with higher cadence as an ability in your cycling makeup you can shift between high cadence and aerobic load and low cadence and muscular load. If you only have one then you will eventually run the tank dry and end up popping and having a slow ride home. Big gear workouts like big weights in the gym may make you feel strong but they dont do much in terms of cycling.

FWIW race wise I have done  Jocks x 4 (over all routes), hekpoort x too many to remember, and many race for victory and laps around suikerbosrand. I am not a climber at all but  I have also beaten significantly stronger cyclists than me by having bail out gears on my bike and the ability to spin when the gradient gets steep. I even rode a triple ring on my road bike for a bit to get the big gears for the flat roads and had a 56 front on a tandem, whilst also having the small gears to spin.

As age has increased and weight has built up the strength and power has dropped off so the gears have become my friend to lengthen the cycling enjoyment.

Some observations:

- there was a time where you could only get 53/39 and 11-23. 11-25 was seen as soft. I also rode 19mm tyres at 11 bar. Anything less was seen as being less hardcore. That was the way it was . Fat tyres were slower etc. Less gears - just push harder and get stronger. Pain is good etc.

- now almost every bike ships with compact cranks front with 25 to 28 with 11 to 12 speed on the back with 25mm tyres at lower inflation. And discs. Much more comfort, better aero less rolling resistance etc.

Science and measurement doesn't lie - bigger wider tyres =more comfort =fresher at the finish.

So from the above where I had a Colnago C40 (super taught carbon which beats you - all road buzz transmitted) with a 54/40/34 crank, 11-23 cluster for speed and 19mm tyres i now ride a Specialized Roubaix with head shock, a 50/34 compact front crank with 11 speed 11-36 rear cluster and 32 mm tyres. 25 years later and older I am more comfortable (age is a bitch) and have only been about 15 to 20 minutes slower on races with this setup.  

So the story about just suffering is very old school and not supported by science is the point i am making. You are doing a lot of musculo-skeletal damage which will play out in stress injuries later on like ITB etc if you mash big gears too much. All the current research supports this view.

My 2 cents worth - like i said everyone to their own but back the observations with science. What we did because it was "accepted" and "the way" is often very wrong as we can now see with the advent of power meters etc.

[love2fly]

11 minutes ago, Paul Ruinaard said:

Hmm most coaches and power meters would disagree with you on that, but hey everyone to their own.

FWIW I have been on bikes for over 25 years and have been from 89 to 118kgs and have always been able to achieve much higher leg speed through training than anyone else. Training leg speed and high cadence high power workouts are by far the most painful but also using a power meter you produce far more power at high cadence than at lower cadence with a given load. Try it sometime. Secondly with higher cadence as an ability in your cycling makeup you can shift between high cadence and aerobic load and low cadence and muscular load. If you only have one then you will eventually run the tank dry and end up popping and having a slow ride home. Big gear workouts like big weights in the gym may make you feel strong but they dont do much in terms of cycling.

FWIW race wise I have done  Jocks x 4 (over all routes), hekpoort x too many to remember, and many race for victory and laps around suikerbosrand. I am not a climber at all but  I have also beaten significantly stronger cyclists than me by having bail out gears on my bike and the ability to spin when the gradient gets steep. I even rode a triple ring on my road bike for a bit to get the big gears for the flat roads and had a 56 front on a tandem, whilst also having the small gears to spin.

As age has increased and weight has built up the strength and power has dropped off so the gears have become my friend to lengthen the cycling enjoyment.

Some observations:

- there was a time where you could only get 53/39 and 11-23. 11-25 was seen as soft. I also rode 19mm tyres at 11 bar. Anything less was seen as being less hardcore. That was the way it was . Fat tyres were slower etc. Less gears - just push harder and get stronger. Pain is good etc.

- now almost every bike ships with compact cranks front with 25 to 28 with 11 to 12 speed on the back with 25mm tyres at lower inflation. And discs. Much more comfort, better aero less rolling resistance etc.

Science and measurement doesn't lie - bigger wider tyres =more comfort =fresher at the finish.

So from the above where I had a Colnago C40 (super taught carbon which beats you - all road buzz transmitted) with a 54/40/34 crank, 11-23 cluster for speed and 19mm tyres i now ride a Specialized Roubaix with head shock, a 50/34 compact front crank with 11 speed 11-36 rear cluster and 32 mm tyres. 25 years later and older I am more comfortable (age is a bitch) and have only been about 15 to 20 minutes slower on races with this setup.  

So the story about just suffering is very old school and not supported by science is the point i am making. You are doing a lot of musculo-skeletal damage which will play out in stress injuries later on like ITB etc if you mash big gears too much. All the current research supports this view.

My 2 cents worth - like i said everyone to their own but back the observations with science. What we did because it was "accepted" and "the way" is often very wrong as we can now see with the advent of power meters etc.

Umm OP 's post was to get thru 947. Not even LA, DR. Ferrari & a power meter are gonna help. If you're undertrained you're undertrained. IMHO if you have to spin up higher than a 39:28 on any climb in the 947 you might as well be on a MTB or walking beside your bike. 

[love2fly]

2 hours ago, Fork-it said:

Thank you all for your valuable input and advice. I think I have made up my mind to stick with what I have and see how it goes. Perhaps that will be the motivation I need to work harder and become stronger. 

 

Now if you all can just give me a little push when you pass me on the climbs, that would be awesome. Thank you!

Spend some time on your bike and I think you'll be faster (and wealthier) for not changing ratios.

[MudLark]

22 hours ago, Fork-it said:

Hi, I have entered the Ride Joburg road event (full distance) after a looong absence from the bike. I have an 11 speed road bike with an 11 - 28 cassette. Will it make a big difference swopping it for a 11 - 32 (or even 34)? I am very worried about dying on the climbs. I am not planning on racing, I just want to enjoy the ride and use this to get back into cycling again for 2023.

Thank you.

Yes. I fitted an 11-34 on my first road bike some years back. Compact groupset to start with. Fitted an SGS rear derailleur. Never regretted it. When are others are walking, I am still pedalling. Recently I fitted an 11-34 to a gravel bike that came with an 11-28. This time I used derailleur hanger extender - R250. Plus the cassette and a longer chain. It helps a lot when I am 120km into a ride and am faced with a steep gradient. I can get away with the 11-28 but the 11-34 is just so much sweeter when you need it. The size of the steps also works wells for me.

[Paul Ruinaard]

5 minutes ago, love2fly said:

Umm OP 's post was to get thru 947. Not even LA, DR. Ferrari & a power meter are gonna help. If you're undertrained you're undertrained. IMHO if you have to spin up higher than a 39:28 on any climb in the 947 you might as well be on a MTB or walking beside your bike. 

Okay cool that's an opinion and its yours so thats cool and you are entitled to your opinion but the opinions need to be backed by science. The people who believe in flat earth also have opinions but catch planes to fly round the earth to flat earth meetings - so the science doesn't back their opinion.

However respectfully you are changing tack in your argument to discuss training load which is completely different and never a debate. Two completely different topics.   More training is always good. Thats not at all being debated. However if you are under trained and want a bailout then having more options is better which is what the OP asked for. 

Being undertrained will not change easily - the race had a fixed date and you have run out of time. Going on long hard rides now - its too late - you wont recover in time and adapt - the load will actually result in you going slower . So giving yourself options to shift the load between aerobic and strength will likely be a much better strategy to have a good race than an opinion from someone wrt gearing. It doesn't matter what race you have in mind - TdF etc or the tour de Durban the same principles apply.

FWIW: Science and physics don't care about opinions.

And theres nothing wrong with riding an MTB - I am sure some mTB riders will do significantly fast times and some will have a great day out there.

But rather than accept an opinion try it on a workout with a power meter and see the results for yourself. Lances power workouts and Dr Ferrari aren't synonymous - watch Chris Froome and Vingegaard, see what cadence they are cranking out up an alpine climb. 

Like everything - the answers change a we get more data - what was correct and we assumed was the best fit 25 years ago isn't right now - we have more data and more knowledge which change sour approach to things and changes what we do. FWIW any scientist will tell you that at any given time about half of what is accepted truth is probably wrong and will change. the problem is we dont know which half is wrong. Its the ability to understand the data and adapt our approaches that allows us to move on and improve - to challenge conventional wisdom and opinions.

 

 

[DieselnDust]

6 hours ago, Fork-it said:

Thank you for this. I had a look, I have a 52/36. Perhaps I should stick with what I have and see what happens.

Well it depends….

the fearing you need to get up a steep hill depends on your power to weight. At 72kg I get up signal hill with a 52/38 chainring and 11-28 cassette..

I can deliver a higher cadence with a 52-36 or 50-34 and 11-30 but the speed I ride is based on my power out put and weight. 
 

are you able to get up the hills in your area without having to drop cadence below 70rpm? If not you need a lower low gear ratio.

[Jensie]

6 hours ago, Fork-it said:

Thank you for this. I had a look, I have a 52/36. Perhaps I should stick with what I have and see what happens.

You will be fine with a 36 and a 28. the hills aren't that long. 

[MudLark]

1 hour ago, Jensie said:

You will be fine with a 36 and a 28. the hills aren't that long. 

Or that short either ....  🙂