AuctionLamb Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 I'll only do races (MTB & Road) where there is electronic timing. Paying plenty moolah for a mass fun ride takes the fun out of the ride' date=' and turns mass into gang and the ride to a word in the topic....Eg: Why ride at Teak Place (GP) for5km Ride : R4019km Ride: R7038km Ride: R90Entries on the day will be accepted for a R20 penalty feeNon electronically timed event vs when you can go ride there for R25.00 and go around the trail as many times as you want?Oh and the runners at the above event?5km Run : R3010km Run: R40Entries on the day will be accepted for a R20 penalty fee.Why the penalty of R20 in any case? What additional costs do they have to cover by somebody entering 'on the line' vs somebody entering on-line?[/quote'] they charge you for the labor to write your name down instead being printed
Jozanne Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 -----Original Message-----From: DULLSTROOM - MTB [mailto:info@dullstroommtb.co.za] Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 2:33 PMSubject: RE: Dullstroom - Highland Gate MTB challenge<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Hi Jozanne Thank you for your e-mail and for the trouble you have gone to to get your point across. We appreciate every rider that partakes in our races and value peoples opinions. We are a family of 5 riders and are fully aware of the costs involved in entering and getting to a race. The subject you have raised is the very same subject I have been wanting to raise in an article to the various MTB magazines regarding what it costs to run a race and the problems that cause races to go bang, die or are run badly. Our last race, the Winter Challenge & Dirty Double had the benefit of 740 riders. A pretty good turn out in comparison to many of the races we have attended or seen screened on Super Cycling with sponsors banners dripping off every pole, tree and building. The crazy thing is we can not get one of the big companies to sponsor our races, no matter how we pitch the benefits to them. Beats me as to why.. other than the fact that we don't have TV coverage. The question that has puzzled us is how do you get TV coverage resulting in sponsorship? The answer we are getting is ... You need to know someone! CSA rates (to register a race so that it is sanctioned and insured) have jumped up, medals have doubled in cost and literally every single cost has jumped up several notches in the last 3 months. To run a race efficiently, which I believe we do according to the feedback we have received, costs lots of money. Volunteers are something of the past so every person you see on our races gets paid. MTB Club members we don't have as there are only 4 local MTB riders in Dullstroom, 2 that are involved in our races, Charmaine and myself. There are far too many races on the calendar to compete on the basis of word of mouth so advertising has to be budgeted for, which is by no means cheap. If we don't provide on-line entries people complain but this service costs us up to 15% of the entry fee. When you take this charge add it to the CSA rider levy, the CSA Insurance and advertising you have lost close to 40% of the entry fees before the race has got close to starting. Then you take a thumb suck and estimate the total number of riders you think you will get: * Buy medals (making darn sure you have enough or someone is going to be upset if they don't get a medal. So because you have no idea how many riders you will get you buy 200 more than you hope you will need - costing you more than you need to spend.) * Make sure that you have enough water points and that they are well manned - again all are paid because no one works for love today. * Make sure you have bought enough Coke, bananas, sweets etc. for each water point for more riders than you hope you will get, convincing yourself that worst case scenario you can give the heaps of left overs to the Belfast Children's Home or SA Epilepsy - another unnecessary cost. * Make sure you have enough registration crew for late entries. Again having to pay people to do this job as no one really considers it fun to get to bed late on Friday night and up early on Saturday to see to riders who haven't done pre-entries. * Make sure that you have enough marshals, that every gate is manned of each private farm we ride through so that their cattle etc. don't get out because you have promised they wont. * That there are enough Medics and an assistant for each Medic (costing an arm and a leg per day) just in case a rider gets hurt. * Make sure you have marked the route properly (interesting fact here, a fencing dropper cost R 3.00 last year, this year they are close to R12.00 each and have become highly sought after and are pinched overnight - we have over 200 of them out on all the routes of a race. On our last race we had close to 50 pinched overnight some even before the race started) * Make sure all the routes are a clear of branches, big stones, wire and last but not least the tufts of grass that just about every rider complains about riding over. This task keeps 4 guys busy for 2 to 3 weeks before a race. Not to mention the petrol, time taking them out to each area and the ware and tare on vehicles that is not even factored into the equation. * Provide efficient Time Keepers that do a good job so that riders feel satisfied with the presentation of the results. Fly these folk in from where they live and accommodate them in decent accommodation because they are the best at what they do and pay them to do their job. * Make sure you have budgeted for prize money. Here is a crazy thing ... do you know how many people want to know what the prize money is? We even had a very big sponsored club try and stretch us over a barrel by saying "If your prize money was a little more and divided up in the following way, they would get about 30 top riders to attend our race". * Run around Dullstroom for days from shop door to shop door pleading for prizes to make sure everyone who wins a category receives a prize and that there are enough lucky draw prizes for those great riders who attend race after race just to compete. * Pay courier fees for this that and the next thing that have to be delivered. * Drive to Nelspruit to hire a PA system on Friday ( half a day) and drive back on Monday to return it (another half a day), never mind the cost of fuel, ware and tare and a persons time. This is a brief glimpse of what goes into a race. We are business owners and like to look at our efforts pretty analytically so spread sheet that calculate every expense are drawn up. This is pretty handy after the race to see exactly how much money we loose or make. Here is an interesting fact .. we will need close to 600 riders to break even on this race. Here is an even bigger fact ... that does not take the weeks of time Charmaine & I have spend organising the race. The most alarming fact is that to date - 5 races / almost 6, down the line the balance sheet is reflecting a R 38 000 loss excluding our time. I suppose this leaves the question : How many people would be prepared to spend R 38 000, give up close to two months of time spent on organising 6 races, resulting in a massive loss of earnings for riders to come and have fun riding around the mountains of Dullstroom. But to get back to your question now that you have the background. The cost of the Sundays ride takes all the above into account and then is calculated on the fact that the expences versus the income determines the cost of the days fun. I think at present we have 84 riders for Sundays ride. If we just look at the direct running expences of just the Sun we will need aprox 200 riders riding the Dual (both days) to break even. I just don't see how we can do it any cheaper considering that most of the marshals, medics, water points and everyone involved in running the race will be there on Sunday for hopefully more than 200 riders. Lastly to compare our unsponsored race costing a rider R 320 for 2 days of MTB fun to big, sponsored races such as Sani 2 C, Epic and considering the thousands of Rands / entry fees charged by them, then in my opinion, it is them who should have these questions directed at when you consider the amount of sponsorship the organisers will be helped with to run their events and the money they might earn for their efforts. R320 is what can easily be spent on a meal out, that is over in an hour with very little to show for it, very little satisfaction and certainly no sense of achievement, fun, camaraderie or adventure. We really hope to see you next week and hope that our explanation gives you some insight into a race organisers life. Kind regards Greg
Guest Agteros Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 I'll only do races (MTB & Road) where there is electronic timing. Paying plenty moolah for a mass fun ride takes the fun out of the ride' date=' and turns mass into gang and the ride to a word in the topic....Eg: Why ride at Teak Place (GP) for5km Ride : R4019km Ride: R7038km Ride: R90Entries on the day will be accepted for a R20 penalty feeNon electronically timed event vs when you can go ride there for R25.00 and go around the trail as many times as you want?Oh and the runners at the above event?5km Run : R3010km Run: R40Entries on the day will be accepted for a R20 penalty fee.Why the penalty of R20 in any case? What additional costs do they have to cover by somebody entering 'on the line' vs somebody entering on-line?[/quote']they charge you for the labor to write your name down instead being printed Right..... So, human, pen and paper costs more than human, computer, printer, ink and paper - oh and a legal copy of MS-Access/Excel or whatever to store this info in? Me thinks NOT!
AuctionLamb Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 I'll only do races (MTB & Road) where there is electronic timing. Paying plenty moolah for a mass fun ride takes the fun out of the ride' date=' and turns mass into gang and the ride to a word in the topic....Eg: Why ride at Teak Place (GP) for5km Ride : R4019km Ride: R7038km Ride: R90Entries on the day will be accepted for a R20 penalty feeNon electronically timed event vs when you can go ride there for R25.00 and go around the trail as many times as you want?Oh and the runners at the above event?5km Run : R3010km Run: R40Entries on the day will be accepted for a R20 penalty fee.Why the penalty of R20 in any case? What additional costs do they have to cover by somebody entering 'on the line' vs somebody entering on-line?[/quote'] they charge you for the labor to write your name down instead being printed Right..... So, human, pen and paper costs more than human, computer, printer, ink and paper - oh and a legal copy of MS-Access/Excel or whatever to store this info in? Me thinks NOT! i was thinking the same thing! esp the legal copy part!!
Guest Agteros Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 deleted - glitch in the system somewhereAgteros2009-03-13 07:23:41
SwissVan Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Right so now I know you cannot always compare boerewors to Lindt chocolate but I still reckon that races in SA are reasonably priced.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />Here follows a price list for some 2009 swiss mtb races XC lap race (with major sponsor)Chf 25 (R216) ? Kids, +/- 12 / 16km Chf 40 (R347) - Fun (no license), +/- 20kmChf 40 (R347) ? Licensed, +/- 40km+Chf 15 (R130) for late entries 1 day <?: prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Marathon (with major sponsor)Chf 100 (R 867) ? All categories and distances (105 km / 4400m or 75km 3000m)
BMCfan Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Right so now I know you cannot always compare boerewors to Lindt chocolate but I still reckon that races in SA are reasonably priced.Here follows a price list for some 2009 swiss mtb races XC lap race (with major sponsor)Chf 25 (R216) ? Kids' date=' +/- 12 / 16km Chf 40 (R347) - Fun (no license), +/- 20kmChf 40 (R347) ? Licensed, +/- 40km+Chf 15 (R130) for late entries 1 day Marathon (with major sponsor)Chf 100 (R 867) ? All categories and distances (105 km / 4400m or 75km 3000m) [/quote'] yeah swissvan, thats what it will cost ME to enter swiss races, but if i were to saty and earn in europe or switzerland for that matter, it would be a total different story what you are actually saying is that we only need to pay R40 for races here!!!!!
SwissVan Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Right so now I know you cannot always compare boerewors to Lindt chocolate but I still reckon that races in SA are reasonably priced.Here follows a price list for some 2009 swiss mtb races XC lap race (with major sponsor)Chf 25 (R216) ? Kids' date=' +/- 12 / 16km Chf 40 (R347) - Fun (no license), +/- 20kmChf 40 (R347) ? Licensed, +/- 40km+Chf 15 (R130) for late entries 1 day Marathon (with major sponsor)Chf 100 (R 867) ? All categories and distances (105 km / 4400m or 75km 3000m) [/quote']yeah swissvan, thats what it will cost ME to enter swiss races, but if i were to saty and earn in europe or switzerland for that matter, it would be a total different storywhat you are actually saying is that we only need to pay R40 for races here!!!!! Exagily why i think SA races prices are reasonable, only costs me about Chf 37 for a 2 day race (110km) - using Mrs Louw's Dullstroom example.
Dirtbreath Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 I would gladly pay R200 to ride in amazing scenery. Hence I choose my races wisely where I am guaranteed of riding in areas I would otherwise not have the opportunity to do so. But riding a race with massive crowds, bottlenecks and boring routes leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.
Guest Agteros Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 I would gladly pay R200 to ride in amazing scenery. Hence I choose my races wisely where I am guaranteed of riding in areas I would otherwise not have the opportunity to do so.But riding a race with massive crowds' date=' bottlenecks and boring routes leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.[/quote'] Speaking of bottlenecks, massive crowds... As a middle of the pack MTB'r I just cannot understand the excitement around single track in a racing scenario... It just leads to huge frustation with no overtaking space. Sure, single track is great when riding a social ride (or alone) but fighting with a 100 other people for rigth of way (and not to be fallen of your own bike) along a footpath through some undergrowth is just not fun. Take the crowds out of the equation and it is the best possible fun there is (on your bike)
Joe Low Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Maybe I'm the only one who thinks the thread title is offensive, especially lookin at the triviality of the subject matter of the thread by comparison. Be grateful if it cud be changed. Please.
Tumbleweed Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Maybe I'm the only one who thinks the thread title is offensive' date=' especially lookin at the triviality of the subject matter of the thread by?comparison. ? Be grateful if it cud be changed. ? Please.[/quote'] you are not alone.
Guest Agteros Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Just as accurate, but a lot less wittier than a lot of newspaper lamppost posters!
Serendipity Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 I have a problem with the topic line. As someone who works with rape victims everyday, I can assure you paying an exorbitant fee for a race is nothing like getting raped. It is insensitive and demeaning to woman and men who have been through such an ordeal. Call it getting screwed if you want to. The title was obviously meant to draw attention.
Guest Agteros Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Ok, I might get shot here for this (And I actually agree with the parallels you guys draw), however bear the following highlighted definitions in mind: rape1 /reɪp/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [reyp] Show IPA noun, verb, raped, rap⋅ing.?noun1. the unlawful compelling of a woman through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.2. any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.3. statutory rape.4. an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.5. Archaic. the act of seizing and carrying off by force.?verb (used with object)6. to force to have sexual intercourse.7. to plunder (a place); despoil.8. to seize, take, or carry off by force.?verb (used without object)9. to commit rape. Agteros2009-03-13 11:25:45
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