Landis trial

[Christie]

I find the goings on in the Landis trial quite interesting. The lawyers for both sides are doing their thing, but in this case, the accused will not be judged by a jury, but a panel of 3 appointed officials. This means that despite all the arguments, the panel may ingnore all the arguments and still decide one way or the other based on they own bias.

 

I think it is a good thing that the hearings are public. I dont doubt that Landis took some nasty dope (like any good pro cyclist), but the fact is that the testosterone test looks unreliable.

[widget]

Hmmm, I think the newspaper head line sums it up perfectly -

 

Landis case - Lost in Translation.

 

From what I have seen and read, nothing new has been disclosed.

 

In my opinion the whole thing is going to get bogged down in scientific jargon with dozens of "experts" punting their various points.

 

Goodness knows how a "lawyer" is going to understand all this which means they will be calling for further clarification from more experts and so on and so on....................!

 

Dont expect an outcome soon.

 

[Tumbleweed]

here's the intro to the latest story that's on the wires:

"Floyd Landis wanted an open arbitration hearing to show the world what really happens in doping cases. The trouble-filled session he sat through Tuesday served as a mind-numbing reminder of why these cases are normally done behind closed doors."

[widget]

here's the intro to the latest story that's on the wires:

"Floyd Landis wanted an open arbitration hearing to show the world what really happens in doping cases. The trouble-filled session he sat through Tuesday served as a mind-numbing reminder of why these cases are normally done behind closed doors."

 

 - Yup - its more interesting watching "moss" grow on your shower curtain.

[Tumbleweed]

even better:

 

Early in the day, testimony offered by the lab's analytical chemist, Cynthia Mongongu, was interrupted frequently with instructions to the witness to speak more clearly, to the translator to speak in the first person, and with pleas from the lawyers to find a better way to do this.
Finally, when the translator misspoke - saying "an hour and a half," when Mongongu really had said "a day and a half" in French - lead arbitrator Patrice Brunet, who speaks French, called for a break and a new translator. That break lasted nearly 90 minutes and came right on the heels of a 90-minute lunch break devoted to getting things right.
When a new translator finally arrived, the testimony began in earnest.
U.S. Anti-Doping Agency lawyer Dan Dunn asked Mongongu if she had worked on the "A" and "B" samples taken after Stage 17 of the 2006 Tour. The Landis camp had cited rules that prohibit the same lab employees from working on different samples as a reason to possibly nullify the positive test.
"I didn't perform the analysis of the 'B' sample, but I helped verify the results," said Mongongu, who also said she didn't know she was testing Landis' urine.
Dunn asked if she broke the seal on the "B" bottle, took any measurements, prepared the sample, dealt with the instruments or handled the "B" sample. Mongongu answered "No" to each question.
Testimony was painfully slow, coming four or five words at a time, with several delays so the new translator could get up to speed on the scientific language.
"I'm really distressed that I wasn't given at least an hour to go over this," translator Martitia Palmer said after being rushed to the Pepperdine University campus to take over for Pierre Debboudt.
Later, the parties found a rhythm, and Brunet applauded Palmer for being such a quick study.

[Tumbleweed]

here's the intro to the latest story that's on the wires:

"Floyd Landis wanted an open arbitration hearing to show the world what really happens in doping cases. The trouble-filled session he sat through Tuesday served as a mind-numbing reminder of why these cases are normally done behind closed doors."

 

 - Yup - its more interesting watching "moss" grow on your shower curtain.

 

more moss-watching:

 

"The lawyers bickered. The translator translated. The arbitrators tried to make peace. And no one stuck to the schedule on another painstaking day in Floyd Landis' arbitration hearing.
A long argument about access to certain documents clogged up most of Wednesday afternoon. When the day was over, only three witnesses on a list of dozens had completed their testimony in the case that could decide the Tour de France champion's fate."

 

maybe lemond taking the stand today could liven things up

[widget]

Yes, its a joke, Landis made a big thing about it been open to the public, I wonder how many folk have bothered to attend??.

 

Not too many (if any) I shall wager.

 

Dont know if LeMond will be good for Landis case, it appears he will testify AGAINST him - but it may spark a bit of "groupie" interest.

 

[Tumbleweed]

told ya lemond was gonna add a little spice to proceedings. child abuse claims and late-night calls from managers!

[Christie]

Big bomb exploded today with the Le Mond testimony. Intimidatory phone calls received by LeMond was traced back to Landis's business manager, Will Geoghegan, by the police. Will now has a case of witness intimidation against him, and was subsequently fired by Landis.

The public nature of the trial centainly not helping Landis.

[Tumbleweed]

Big bomb exploded today with the Le Mond testimony. Intimidatory phone calls received by LeMond was traced back to Landis's business manager' date=' Will Geoghegan, by the police. Will now has a case of witness intimidation against him, and was subsequently fired by Landis.

The public nature of the trial centainly not helping Landis.

[/quote']

 

 

dont ya just love how american "winners" love to suppress whistle-blowers?lance taught floyd well. basso's american sponsors aren't doing him any favours this week either   

[Christie]

The Landis camp wins round #5 (or is it #6, I've lost count).

Two doctors testified on Monday, both very highly qualified. One is a professor at the university of Washington and a member of USADA's independent anti-doping board, the other a professor from Queen's University in Belfast, Ireland.

 

Interestingly, both blasted the test results as marginal, and they pointed out a lot of assumptions being made by the lab to arrive at a positive result. They also pointed out scientific studies conducted found no endurance or recovery benefit due to testosterone. They both held up well under cross examination, despite the USADA's lawyer's attempts to undermine their testimony.

 

Could there be a tiny chance that Landis could be cleared?

[Tumbleweed]

well, yawn, yawn, landis case draws to a close. the only exciting thing (aport from lemond's bombshell) about the case was the associated press writers often wry commentary on the case. this from his last despatch:

 

"Whether he's found innocent or guilty of doping during his Tour de France victory, it's a near certainty the world hasn't heard the last of Floyd Landis and his defense team.
His tabloid-style arbitration hearing ended Wednesday. A decision could take months. And when it comes, the case almost certainly won't end there, because the loser is expected to appeal at the next and final level, the Court of Arbitration for Sport.
There, they'll rehash much of the evidence that was presented over these nine days in a public hearing that certainly wasn't fit for all ears.
Landis' attorney Maurice Suh used closing arguments to assert that the hearing was about more than just his client's quest to retain the Tour title and avoid a two-year ban from cycling.
"It is the first to comprehensively challenge the systematic failures of an anti-doping lab to follow its own rules," Suh said.
But it was hard to imagine Landis wanted the challenge to morph into such a spectacle.
The Greg LeMond affair defined these hearings, and also served up an easily exploitable piece of evidence for attorneys from the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency. They used it at every opportunity." 

[TNT1]

Balls man. I don't even care anymore. I just feel sorry for the poor guy that they took him to task in this arbitration for wearing a black shirt and tie with a black suit the one day. Focking fockers!

[Tumbleweed]

agreed, tnt, nothing explosive (geddit?) in the hearing.

widget, how's that shower curtain moss coming on?

[Christie]

I agree that the whole thing is boring, as trials go in the real world (compared to Holywood where they are wrapped up inside 3 hours.)

 

The outcome of the whole affair is significant, however. Can one of the main anti-doping lab in the world be discredited? If they made a mistake here, how many more did they make, both ways? I think Landis will be found guilty, regardless, because the UCI can't afford its doping conrols to be questioned.

 

The most telling testimony of the whole mess was that of Dr Simon Davis, the technical director of the company who makes the machine the lab used to test the yellow stuff. Quoting cyclingnews.com:

 

"I think they are totally unreliable," said Davis, who was present at the lab's re-testing of Landis' sample in April this year.

"They clearly did not understand the instrument," he added in a scathing assessment of the technician's abilities. "I had to help them load the reprocessed data on the machine. They tried to help each other during the processing and did not seem to know how the software worked."

 

Should a TDF title be stripped based on a conclusion drawn from marginal data compiled by uncompetent technicians?  

[Tumbleweed]

Should a TDF title be stripped based on a conclusion drawn from marginal data compiled by uncompetent technicians?  

 

of course not. i think there was a parallel in the use of haemocrit levels to suspend cyclists for suspected epo use. not fair