Dr charging double ma rate

[CJVDM]

So, does this mean that i have to negotiate for everything i buy?

 

Should i negotiate with Woolies or PnP when i buy groceries?  Why would the medical profession charge 3 - 4 times the NH rates?  Why not just give us the best price?

 

I think the problem is with my upbringing where we were told to shut up and accept everything.

 

At what point should i negotiate and when should i not? eg

- Vehicle repairs

- Solar heating installations

- ect

 

I try to get a quote from various suppliers before i do something, then i pick the best fit eg value for money.  If you dont quote me your best price, dont be surprised if i dont pick you.

 

[wpdeb]

CJVDM,

The reason why we don't always charge the NHRPL price, is that he tariff has not kept up with inflation and medical costs - studies performed by the various professional societies within the medical community have proven that the NHRPL price should be closer to 300% of what it is now - it is just very convenient for the medical aids to pay the list price.

Why do you think that certain medical aids are prepared to pay 2-3 times the list price if it was so unreasonable.

Another thing you should remember is that the cost of living in certain cities are much higher than others - a surgeon in Bloemfontein can live a comfortable life charging the list price but once you live in the Northern Suburbs of Johannesburg that does not hold true.

You say that if you dont get quoted the best price, you may not choose a certain individual - remember that you are not dealing with motor spares here - there are reasons why certain doctors feel that their services are worth more than a list price - if you need specialized care and you want it done by somebody who knows what he is doing, you are going to pay for his expertise and experience - if you are prepared to go to somebody who will do it cheaper, that is a risk you'll need to take.

[Elvis]

So, does this mean that i have to negotiate for everything i buy?Should i negotiate with Woolies or PnP when i buy groceries?? Why would the medical profession charge 3 - 4 times the NH rates?

 

 

 

I agree with this, it seems to me that some of these guys are there just to make money... I am also a professional and I think that you do stuff not just for yourself but it is a calling for the better of other people. Maybe I'm just naive thats why I ride a old bike...

[Jaco-fiets]

shoe!!! There are some horror stories here and i feel for you guys. But.. where do you guys live? Im in the Western Cape and i never had anything like this and im a frequent visitor to the dr's office.

[Puncture Girl]

9 and 1/2 years ago my son was born 10 weeks prem.  Prior to that I lay in hospital for 8 weeks.  The total bill between hospital/Dr's etc was R275 000.00  The medical aid then paid everything.  We didn't pay a cent.   

 

These days I doubt that would happen.

 

Touch wood - this year not one of us have stepped a foot into a Dr's room besides the Dentist.  Crossing fingers we can stay this healthy.

 

 

[kosmonooit]

 

 

I seriously suggest(ed) cyclists should at least have some hospital plan if you dont have medical aid, to make sure you are going to get good medical attention in the case of an accident, and these are not things you plan, sh!t happens just when you never expect it. You might be a little out of pocket but the big expenses (ICU, MRI, Surgery) are covered. Discovery has some good options, and you do get a tax benefit (to a point), your contribution lowers your taxable earnings.?

Sadly all this is not cheap, and you pay for what you get. It's one of many failing of the state here: public healthy care. Money better spent on stadiums and other white-elephant grandoise schemes.

I can fwd anyone the latest Discovery options: I dont sell them but know about due to my work role, you can arrange through brokers or direct.

 

kosmonooit2009-12-04 23:40:29

[wpdeb]

Henri,

If I may ask you what do you think a surgeon in private practice earn and then what do you think he is worth knowing the following:

-  studied 6 years to get medical degree

-  do internship for another year

-  2 years of medical officer

-  5 years of being a registrar to become a surgeon with a M degree

-  start at work at 06:30 and then get home at 8 every night

-  do 2 calls a week of being 24 hours available for Casualties

-  do 2 weekends a month of being 24 hours available

-  only start earning money at 31 - that means an average of 8-10 years after your peers

-  knowing that one mistake can kill somebody or get you reported at council

Regards

 

[Minion]

 

Henri' date='

If I may ask you what do you think a surgeon in private practice earn and then what do you think he is worth knowing the following:

-  studied 6 years to get medical degree

-  do internship for another year

-  2 years of medical officer

-  5 years of being a registrar to become a surgeon with a M degree

-  start at work at 06:30 and then get home at 8 every night

-  do 2 calls a week of being 24 hours available for Casualties

-  do 2 weekends a month of being 24 hours available

-  only start earning money at 31 - that means an average of 8-10 years after your peers

 

 

-  knowing that one mistake can kill somebody or get you reported at council

[/quote']

If he were the director of an engineering company, acknowledged as one of the world leaders in his field of expertise, who has

 

- studied for 6 years to get his MSc (almost pure studying/research, very little time spent on practical work like ward rounds)

- worked in an Engineer in Training mentorship program for 3 years

- achieved his PrEng and government ticket

- spent a further 5yrs doing his PhD

- starts work at 7, goes home at 6 and then works at home until 9-10 (not all of the hours being billable)

- is available 24-7 for any on-site emergency any one of a number of clients may have

- only starts earning at 25 (at a similar salary to an intern of the same age)

- knowing that a mistake in a design could kill many, cost millions, bankrupt his company and possibly lead to criminal liability

 

and whose hourly rate also has to cover his company overheads, then he will charge around R2000/hr.

 

Admittedly, this is probably because engineers are seriously under-compensated compared to the value that are able to add.

 

[wpdeb]

Thanks Edman,

The medical aid rate for a consultation is between R180-R200 - specialists are reimbursed about R2 more than a GP.

Seeing that a consultation is usually between 20-30 minutes, the hourly rate would work out at about R600

Do you feel that is fair reimbursement

[No Name]

i would not have complained about the double rates if i was told before hand. I would have maybe even asked for another doctor. But for them to just charge you that and not even have a sign or decency to tell you are not cool. It was part my fault not checking before time but this being my first op it was the last thing i was thinking about. Next time i will be carefull. Also still waiting to get bill from hospital. Hopefully medical aid paid everything.

[stringbean]

Dude there is no such thing as medical aid rate and a lot of people don't understand this.A few years ago there WAS a book that was renewed every year by the Health Professional Council that gave rates for the doctors for private and medical aid patients.It was in writing and that was what doctors HAD to charge.This book was then opposed by the MEDICAL AID COMPANIES who said that this book meant that there was price fixing.(This is where all went wrong because i believe in some situations price fixing is good)The HPCSA lost the appeal and since then may not publish fees but only a guidline of rates.Medical aid rate now is the rate the medical aid Feels that they should pay the doctor and then you have the rate what the doctor feels he should get.There is NO set rate that the doctor MUST charge because that is now considered price fixing.More and more doctors are not even dealing with medical aid companies and asking patients to pay up front.Remember you dont have to go to that doctor,you can go to another one if you are not happy.You dont take you bike to your LBS,ask for a full service and then complain about the bill when you fetch the bike if you didn't ask HOW MUCH before hand.

 

[CJVDM]

 

 

Thanks Edman' date='

The medical aid rate for a consultation is between R180-R200 - specialists are reimbursed about R2 more than a GP.

Seeing that a consultation is usually between 20-30 minutes, the hourly rate would work out at about R600

Do you feel that is fair reimbursement

[/quote']

 

Strange, in western cape, i pay at least R250 for a consultation, but specialists definately charge a lot more......  I would have thought that Gauteng would charge even more.

 

Also funny how the doctor's parking at the hospitals are filled with the latest German automobiles, although i can hardly say the same for other professional positions as well.

 

I understand you feel that doctors have higher responsibility and that they should be compensated for that, but my honest opinion is that they conveniently milk the customer as well with the "you cant put a price on health" speech.

 

CJVDM2009-12-05 16:23:41

[Christopher Brunsdon]

 

 

Thanks Edman' date='

The medical aid rate for a consultation is between R180-R200 - specialists are reimbursed about R2 more than a GP.

Seeing that a consultation is usually between 20-30 minutes, the hourly rate would work out at about R600

Do you feel that is fair reimbursement

[/quote']

 

Strange, in western cape, i pay at least R250 for a consultation, but specialists definately charge a lot more......  I would have thought that Gauteng would charge even more.

 

Also funny how the doctor's parking at the hospitals are filled with the latest German automobiles, although i can hardly say the same for other professional positions as well.

 

I understand you feel that doctors have higher responsibility and that they should be compensated for that, but my honest opinion is that they conveniently milk the customer as well with the "you cant put a price on health" speech.

 

 

My Somerset West Dr is R250 - I thought that was the norm (was R175 last year). Its R175 for after hours ~ R375 then.

 

An average bill is now R900 as both my son & I have chest problems. Considering the quality of advice and correct medication supplied I'm happy to pay for it. (Quality of life has no price for me)

 

But the big pain is when those bills come - R3K for last month alone (R10K this year).

 

Was joking with the one Doc as he is into MTBing and I have to subsidise his habit

 

[mtb_Josh]

Ok, straight up - I am a med student, so maybe my view is a bit biased, but nevertheless:

 

 

 

I spent the past month with one of the most expensive ophthalmologists in SA. He has ridiculous costs involved in running his practice. The equipment in his rooms alone cost upwards of R6mil. Never mind the other overheads every month.

 

 

 

Surgery is very expensive for the patient, BUT most of the costs are paid to the hospital. Granted the doctor makes a good living, but you need to remember that he has taken 16 years of studying and working in absolutely shocking conditions to get where he is. He also works his ass off every single day of his life with unbelievable stress levels.

 

 

 

Ok, enough ranting, bottom line is - you should ask for a quote beforehand and I would change medical aids.

 

Just remember - You get EXACTLY what you pay for (in most cases anyway)

[EigerSA]

I work my arse off everyday myself, so do a lot of us. I've worked in really crappy places and have had to put up with people I would've preferred not too deal with. I have machinery that may not cost R6mil, but was expensive, and this year I plan to buy some more machines that will hit at least R1mil. And I'll absorb that cost because it's part of my running expense. What I wont do is pass that cost straight to my customer. I have to do that because of competition in my industry, something I don't believe specialists have to deal with. I'm stressed all the time (which is why I cycle) because that's what running a business entails. What makes your opthalmologist so special?

 

We certainly do not get what we pay for.

 

[Christopher Brunsdon]

I was thinking about how my Dr affords his MTB and luxury vehicle. If I put in the hours he did I would also be able to enjoy such luxuries. Heck, last week my wife pulled in some extra hours to assist clients (and she charged after hour rates) and we shocked at how much she made.

 

EigerSA also makes a good point. For my wifes small hair salon business we absorb all costs of doing business. Why should her clients pay for our luxuries. That way my wife rather buys a R2K professional hair scissor vs a R10K yuppie version (it happens). We buy only what she needs without compromising on quality - its even cheaper to direct some business to her competition than to spend the money in equipment to handle these clients.