Licenses for Cyclists

[GoLefty!!]

I'd prefer that you provide some warning first

[Guest coenie]

 

For those of you proposing that cyclists get licenses' date=' pass exams and riding tests and pay the government money in order to be able to ride a bike I have a few questions:

 

Are you so arrogant that in your elitist, little world you assume that you are the ALPHA and the OMEGA of cycling?

 

Being a farmer I live in a rural community and work with illiterate and semi literate folk who have no, absolutely NO, chance of passing a written learners test and have neither the time, the logistics, nor the money to take a practical test.

 

Would your self righteous, quick fix approach not deprive them of their only means of transport and possibly even their income?

 

Would you initiate yet another grossly mismanaged and corrupt government institution to reap in kick backs from driving schools and force our youth to resort to bribery in order to avoid long, multi day queues in front of dingy offices?

 

Do you think that our current motor vehicle testing and licensing system has drastically reduced the number of road fatalities? Has it made our roads safer for motorists, pedestrians or cyclists?

 

Many of the cyclists killed on our roads are killed while obeying the laws of the road by LICENSED motorists.

 

On a more selfish note: I already have a drivers license so I know what a STOP sign means. If your actions do indeed force me into a beurocratic nightmare and possibly off my bicycle for good. Then a POX on you!

 

[/quote']

 

Well said....!!!!

 

You summed it up very well.

 

[EZRider]

 

TZmtb' date='

 

So youhave illiterates in your community.

Why are they illerate?

What have you done to lift the literacy rate.

 

Chcild education on rules of the road is an excellent idea and should be part of the school curriculum. When I was in primary school it was. then somewhere in the 80's it dropped away. Too expensive or something or the traffic police no longer had the competency time.

 

No onw wants to be inconvenienced by have to follow a licensing process and sure licenses don't solve road deaths, a change of attitude does.

 

Starting education at grassroots is wonderful but waht about all the adults on push bikes who have drivers licenses yet can't understand what a red light means or even then big red and white hexagonal board with a 4 letter word on it?

You want to educate them? Just try it and see what the response is.

 

If you feel that licensing is an inconvenince then don;t bother with your drivers either. I mean why the heck should you have a drivers license if your old man taught you to drive a bakkie on the plaas?

[/quote']

 

What have YOU done for illiteracy?

I create employment for 60 people whose lives I DO try to uplift through helping them school their children, helping them get their driver's licenses and by holding regular HIV, cholera and financial planning workshops.

 

The fact that it would inconvenience me is a small thing when viewing this from an armchair warrior's perspective. Spewing fantastic and unworkable ideas on a public forum gives rise to this kind of altruistic sentiment that means absolutely nothing.

 

I don't want to have to license myself to ride my bike.

My farm workers certainly don't want to any more licensing debacles.

The grass roots riders are not the ones skipping red lights and riding on the wrong side of the road. If you want to police your elitist hobby or sport or past time then by all means, do so. Just don't come up with a whole lot of rubbish suggestions to complicate it for the rest of us.

 

Comparing this to a car licensing is a ridiculous argument that is hardly worth debating. The cars are the ones responsible for most deaths on our roads. I am sure their have been a few pedestrians killed by bikes but the number fades into insignificance. First fix what's wrong with the motorists and then start looking for the splinter in the cyclists eye.

 

Ray

 

[EZRider]

 

What's a "Linceses"? Doesn't sound to great. Do I have to stop being a cyclist if a don't take one?

 

 

Fank youu for ponting thet oot.

 

[Guest Agteros]

TZmtb' date='

 

So youhave illiterates in your community.

Why are they illerate?

What have you done to lift the literacy rate.

 

Chcild education on rules of the road is an excellent idea and should be part of the school curriculum. When I was in primary school it was. then somewhere in the 80's it dropped away. Too expensive or something or the traffic police no longer had the competency time.

 

No onw wants to be inconvenienced by have to follow a licensing process and sure licenses don't solve road deaths, a change of attitude does.

 

Starting education at grassroots is wonderful but waht about all the adults on push bikes who have drivers licenses yet can't understand what a red light means or even then big red and white hexagonal board with a 4 letter word on it?

You want to educate them? Just try it and see what the response is.

 

If you feel that licensing is an inconvenince then don;t bother with your drivers either. I mean why the heck should you have a drivers license if your old man taught you to drive a bakkie on the plaas?

[/quote']

What have YOU done for illiteracy?
I create employment for 60 people whose lives I DO try to uplift through helping them school their children, helping them get their driver's licenses and by holding regular HIV, cholera and financial planning workshops.

The fact that it would inconvenience me is a small thing when viewing this from an armchair warrior's perspective. Spewing fantastic and unworkable ideas on a public forum gives rise to this kind of altruistic sentiment that means absolutely nothing.

I don't want to have to license myself to ride my bike.
My farm workers certainly don't want to any more licensing debacles.
The grass roots riders are not the ones skipping red lights and riding on the wrong side of the road. If you want to police your elitist hobby or sport or past time then by all means, do so. Just don't come up with a whole lot of rubbish suggestions to complicate it for the rest of us.

Comparing this to a car licensing is a ridiculous argument that is hardly worth debating. The cars are the ones responsible for most deaths on our roads. I am sure their have been a few pedestrians killed by bikes but the number fades into insignificance. First fix what's wrong with the motorists and then start looking for the splinter in the cyclists eye.

Ray

 

 Well done on actually doing something to help people Ray!

 

People do tend to forget that a bicycle is transport (and not cheap to the owners) for a lot of people. For the vast majority of cyclists, cycling is not a hobby or sport. It is a tool to help eke out a meager living with their limited resources.

 

GoLefty, I think your cards have been called. Stop the clever word plays, and tell us what YOU have done.

[Gasping]

TZmtb' date='

 

So youhave illiterates in your community.

Why are they illerate?

What have you done to lift the literacy rate.

 

Chcild education on rules of the road is an excellent idea and should be part of the school curriculum. When I was in primary school it was. then somewhere in the 80's it dropped away. Too expensive or something or the traffic police no longer had the competency time.

 

No onw wants to be inconvenienced by have to follow a licensing process and sure licenses don't solve road deaths, a change of attitude does.

 

Starting education at grassroots is wonderful but waht about all the adults on push bikes who have drivers licenses yet can't understand what a red light means or even then big red and white hexagonal board with a 4 letter word on it?

You want to educate them? Just try it and see what the response is.

 

If you feel that licensing is an inconvenince then don;t bother with your drivers either. I mean why the heck should you have a drivers license if your old man taught you to drive a bakkie on the plaas?

[/quote']

What have YOU done for illiteracy?
I create employment for 60 people whose lives I DO try to uplift through helping them school their children, helping them get their driver's licenses and by holding regular HIV, cholera and financial planning workshops.

The fact that it would inconvenience me is a small thing when viewing this from an armchair warrior's perspective. Spewing fantastic and unworkable ideas on a public forum gives rise to this kind of altruistic sentiment that means absolutely nothing.

I don't want to have to license myself to ride my bike.
My farm workers certainly don't want to any more licensing debacles.
The grass roots riders are not the ones skipping red lights and riding on the wrong side of the road. If you want to police your elitist hobby or sport or past time then by all means, do so. Just don't come up with a whole lot of rubbish suggestions to complicate it for the rest of us.

Comparing this to a car licensing is a ridiculous argument that is hardly worth debating. The cars are the ones responsible for most deaths on our roads. I am sure their have been a few pedestrians killed by bikes but the number fades into insignificance. First fix what's wrong with the motorists and then start looking for the splinter in the cyclists eye.

Ray

 

TZmtb, I love your work.

 

I wonder if our Lefty mate teaches literacy. I hope not. If his spelling is anything to go by, a little knowledge is a very dangerous thing.

 

Keep doing what you are doing. It sounds like you are trying to make a difference in the lives that you touch.

 

The thing that irritates me so much about this is that in his original post on  the other thread, he actually had some good ideas (apart from the licensing issue). Some of us cyclists have no regard for traffic laws. I do not think that anyone will dispute that.

 

Then the tirade/tantrum starts up and the bile that got spewed out really made the arguments put forward null and void. Now we have to start on about who does what for their community to uplift them.

 

Then the discussion goes to who wants to declare war and let's have a beer to discuss this. I choose whom I drink beer with. If I am ever in your neck of the woods TZmtb, I would love to have a beer with you. As for the other chap with his Lefty-ness, I would rather spend an extra day at work than spend 5 minutes in his company. 

[EZRider]

 

TZmtb' date='

 

So youhave illiterates in your community.

Why are they illerate?

What have you done to lift the literacy rate.

 

Chcild education on rules of the road is an excellent idea and should be part of the school curriculum. When I was in primary school it was. then somewhere in the 80's it dropped away. Too expensive or something or the traffic police no longer had the competency time.

 

No onw wants to be inconvenienced by have to follow a licensing process and sure licenses don't solve road deaths, a change of attitude does.

 

Starting education at grassroots is wonderful but waht about all the adults on push bikes who have drivers licenses yet can't understand what a red light means or even then big red and white hexagonal board with a 4 letter word on it?

You want to educate them? Just try it and see what the response is.

 

If you feel that licensing is an inconvenince then don;t bother with your drivers either. I mean why the heck should you have a drivers license if your old man taught you to drive a bakkie on the plaas?

[/quote']

 

What have YOU done for illiteracy?

I create employment for 60 people whose lives I DO try to uplift through helping them school their children, helping them get their driver's licenses and by holding regular HIV, cholera and financial planning workshops.

 

The fact that it would inconvenience me is a small thing when viewing this from an armchair warrior's perspective. Spewing fantastic and unworkable ideas on a public forum gives rise to this kind of altruistic sentiment that means absolutely nothing.

 

I don't want to have to license myself to ride my bike.

My farm workers certainly don't want to any more licensing debacles.

The grass roots riders are not the ones skipping red lights and riding on the wrong side of the road. If you want to police your elitist hobby or sport or past time then by all means, do so. Just don't come up with a whole lot of rubbish suggestions to complicate it for the rest of us.

 

Comparing this to a car licensing is a ridiculous argument that is hardly worth debating. The cars are the ones responsible for most deaths on our roads. I am sure their have been a few pedestrians killed by bikes but the number fades into insignificance. First fix what's wrong with the motorists and then start looking for the splinter in the cyclists eye.

 

Ray

 

 Well done on actually doing something to help people Ray!

 

People do tend to forget that a bicycle is transport (and not cheap to the owners) for a lot of people. For the vast majority of cyclists, cycling is not a hobby or sport. It is a tool to help eke out a meager living with their limited resources.

 

GoLefty, I think your cards have been called. Stop the clever word plays, and tell us what YOU have done.

 

Thanks Agteros.

 

Just to set the record straight:

 

I help the people here because I want to and because I like my staff.

I also help the people here because happy people are less likely to kill/steal from me.

And because I get better prices from the English supermarkets if I do.

I am not Mother Therese.

But I do what I can even if it's not enough.

 

 

[EZRider]

 

TZmtb' date='

 

So youhave illiterates in your community.

Why are they illerate?

What have you done to lift the literacy rate.

 

Chcild education on rules of the road is an excellent idea and should be part of the school curriculum. When I was in primary school it was. then somewhere in the 80's it dropped away. Too expensive or something or the traffic police no longer had the competency time.

 

No onw wants to be inconvenienced by have to follow a licensing process and sure licenses don't solve road deaths, a change of attitude does.

 

Starting education at grassroots is wonderful but waht about all the adults on push bikes who have drivers licenses yet can't understand what a red light means or even then big red and white hexagonal board with a 4 letter word on it?

You want to educate them? Just try it and see what the response is.

 

If you feel that licensing is an inconvenince then don;t bother with your drivers either. I mean why the heck should you have a drivers license if your old man taught you to drive a bakkie on the plaas?

[/quote']

 

What have YOU done for illiteracy?

I create employment for 60 people whose lives I DO try to uplift through helping them school their children, helping them get their driver's licenses and by holding regular HIV, cholera and financial planning workshops.

 

The fact that it would inconvenience me is a small thing when viewing this from an armchair warrior's perspective. Spewing fantastic and unworkable ideas on a public forum gives rise to this kind of altruistic sentiment that means absolutely nothing.

 

I don't want to have to license myself to ride my bike.

My farm workers certainly don't want to any more licensing debacles.

The grass roots riders are not the ones skipping red lights and riding on the wrong side of the road. If you want to police your elitist hobby or sport or past time then by all means, do so. Just don't come up with a whole lot of rubbish suggestions to complicate it for the rest of us.

 

Comparing this to a car licensing is a ridiculous argument that is hardly worth debating. The cars are the ones responsible for most deaths on our roads. I am sure their have been a few pedestrians killed by bikes but the number fades into insignificance. First fix what's wrong with the motorists and then start looking for the splinter in the cyclists eye.

 

Ray

 

TZmtb, I love your work.

 

I wonder if our Lefty mate teaches literacy. I hope not. If his spelling is anything to go by, a little knowledge is a very dangerous thing.

 

Keep doing what you are doing. It sounds like you are trying to make a difference in the lives that you touch.

 

The thing that irritates me so much about this is that in his original post on  the other thread, he actually had some good ideas (apart from the licensing issue). Some of us cyclists have no regard for traffic laws. I do not think that anyone will dispute that.

 

Then the tirade/tantrum starts up and the bile that got spewed out really made the arguments put forward null and void. Now we have to start on about who does what for their community to uplift them.

 

Then the discussion goes to who wants to declare war and let's have a beer to discuss this. I choose whom I drink beer with. If I am ever in your neck of the woods TZmtb, I would love to have a beer with you. As for the other chap with his Lefty-ness, I would rather spend an extra day at work than spend 5 minutes in his company. 

 

Shot Gasping,

 

if ever you are up Tzaneen way send us a pm and we can hook up for that beer.

Even better, bring your bike and I will set us up on a ride. Magoebaskloof is MTB paradise!

 

[waynex]

Hi Guys

 

This thread and the previous one started because of some club riders being inconsiderate on Saturday morning.  I was riding in the area mentioned by Lefty on Saturday morning and will therefore make the assumption that it was either Cycle Lab or Club 100 as they where the largest groups out there.  Both of these Clubs seem to have the same problems as we approach Argus season (This is similar to what happened at the crater a few weeks ago) in that they have to many members. I have contacted the clubs and conveyed to them the problems some of us are experiencing with them. They were very helpful and promised they they would address these issues.  They also encourage future communication with the public so that they could address any future issues.

 

[Gasping]

Hi Guys

This thread and the previous one started because of some club riders being inconsiderate on Saturday morning.  I was riding in the area mentioned by Lefty on Saturday morning and will therefore make the assumption that it was either Cycle Lab or Club 100 as they where the largest groups out there.  Both of these Clubs seem to have the same problems as we approach Argus season (This is similar to what happened at the crater a few weeks ago) in that they have to many members. I have contacted the clubs and conveyed to them the problems some of us are experiencing with them. They were very helpful and promised they they would address these issues.  They also encourage future communication with the public so that they could address any future issues.

 

Now this is the type of attitude that I can appreciate. You actually did something about it without demeaning yourself or your argument by words that are uncalled for. Just watch those assumptions but in all fairness you did label them as assumptions not fact.

 

TZmtb, I would love to bring my bike up there - how are the roads? I am one of those Lycra wearing chops that ride on tar.

 

 

[waynex]

I was not privy to the incident Lefty mentioned but while I was out there both these clubs had a few infringements. I find that if the guys ride in there club colours it is easy to contact the club after the ride and bring up these issues, like I said  they were very helpful and insured me that they will try there best to improve. I do not expect them to improve overnight but they have assured me they will bring this matter up before there next club ride. I think that those of us who do not ride for a club should maybe also raise some of the concerns highlighted by these threads to our friends and lets try and make the road a safer place. 

[GoLefty!!]

Waynex,

 

the perpsin question re Saturdaymorning were a mix of Cyclab, Club 100,  and Acsis. There were loads of guys not in club kit so it was most likely stragglers from the CycleLAb Club ride mixed in with a af ew guys from other clubs and people who are not club members at all.

 

I have called the Lab wrt previous infringements and received the same warm, touching reassurance that they would do everything in their power to bring their members in line but a year later, the behaviour seems worse than last year. Possibly because the bunches are bigger. Possibly because the wanna be pro atitude is more imbedded in their psyche.

 

this year it started earlier than usual, possibly due to more people wanting to ride DC.

 

the message is pretty load and clear:

- We do want we want, when we want, even if the club requests something different.

 

- the clubs are NOT taking action against their members, which re-inforces bad behaviour.

 

-many prefers touchy feely wordsmithing to action.

 

 

One positive is that cyclists stand united against motorists.

Its a pity that we don't stand united for setting a better example.

[waynex]

Cycle Lab is a business the club is there to promote that  business, the approach I have is to continue raising this issue to the club. We all know that if the group riders continue with there current way of riding there will be a accident somewhere down the line. When I started riding I did similar things firstly because of inexperience and also because of my attitude, after one or two close call my attitude has changed and unfortunately I suppose this will have happen here too.  The other point Lefty mentions is also true other riders jumping on the back of a already large group does not help the situation. We are now entering the silly season in Cape Town lets try and let cool heads prevail. 

[EZRider]

 

 

TZmtb' date=' I would love to bring my bike up there - how are the roads? I am one of those Lycra wearing chops that ride on tar.

 

 

[/quote']

 

Well, we accept all sorts here, even road riding goons.

As for lycra, it is all I consider wearing. Anyone spending three to four hours on their bike, mountain or road, in sweat wet cotton clothes knows the value of lycra.

The roads here are not good at all. Lots of pot holes (especially after the rain) and swerving taxis trying to miss them.

That's why we ride the mountains which are beautiful, steep and covered in forest

I have an extra hardtail which I will haul out of storage for you. I don't know why but most roadies I have met ride hardtails. Must be because you lot have hard tails.