Shiny calves Posted February 10, 2010 Share Come now Guys! If Jesus forgave our sins, who are we not to forgive Nolan? Beside the ban, the guy is a great talent for SA cycling. His record speaks for itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMartin Posted February 10, 2010 Share Criminalize doping? We must now go through the expense of getting yet more laws through parliament because a couple of skinny guys with shaved legs cant behave. I think we have bigger fish to fry regards criminality in South Africa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyr249 Posted February 10, 2010 Share What I respect Nolan for is that he said up front that he took Perf Enhancing Drugs because is perfomance was not up to scratch. He did not hide behind the excuse that he did'nt know what he was taking or he took cough medicine' date=' or his doctor prescribed something etc etc like nearly all others that have been caught. So yes, one needs to give him credit for his honestly.[/quote'] But he still took Performance Enhancing Drugs. And people involved in the sport of cycling and especially professional riders know the consequences. It has certainly being extremely well publicised over many many years. They know it is wrong and they know the consequences. If they say they didn't know about the doping issue/problem in cycling then they are clearly fibbing because ask many non-cyclists and that is what they will say about cycling! He took it and he knew the consequences. He was caught and must live with them. What would happen if I went to Monte Casino and put some money in the slots? I know that there is a risk of losing my money. If I don't win can I go to the casino management and say, "Yes, I am being honest. I did put money in the slot machine. I lost my money. Can I please have my money back for a second chance?"I hear you. And I hear most of you guys on the "Give them a hard ban so everyone else is scared off", thing is - there needs to be a option for forgiveness and 2nd change , its not like they killed someone - maybe killed someones dream, yes.Its the riders choice to then decide if he wants to take that 2nd chance after the ban - face all the difficulties of a comeback and face the music in papers and media.If not chicken out and leave the sport. You were a complete cheat anyway.Riders who failed and got into some bad things like doping and cheating who comes back after the initial ban to show character and to proof everyone wrong, are the one's I'm trying to protect and give a 2nd chance.Make the initial ban hard on the riders to make the choice easier to not dope - but give a chance to the one's who do fall into that trap due to pressure or what ever. So the accountant who assists his client knowing it was wrong must be allowed to continue practicing accounting? The lawyer who puts his hands into trust account money knowing it was wrong must be allowed to practice law again? The doctor who commits malpractice knowing it was wrong must be allowed to practice medicine again?If a rider/accountant/lawyer/doctor is prepared to do it once then there is a huge chance that their principles level is not high enough for the sport or profession. For accounting/Legal professions you have to be a fit and proper person for those professions. You have to prove it. By taking dope you are proving that you are not a fit and proper person to be involved in professional cycling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kritzie Posted February 10, 2010 Share You must be joking, no expense should be spared to put fraudsters behind bars, you must remember were not talking about a few thousand rands, were talking millions of rands invested by a company in good faith and then their defrauded by this junkie!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyr249 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Come now Guys! If Jesus forgave our sins' date=' who are we not to forgive Nolan? Beside the ban, the guy is a great talent for SA cycling. His record speaks for itself[/quote'] Is it really? How do we know that those results were not assisted by juice? Do you want kids to see Nolan as a role model? If the world is coming to tthe point where we see cheats as role models that the situation is extremely sad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASTANA Posted February 10, 2010 Share If rider emmigrate then that is good. It will leave the clean riders behind. Take Oscar Perreiro. He won the Tour because Landis was disqualified. But who stood on the top step in Paris - Landis. Perreiro' date=' being the clean rider, was denied the emotion and glory of standing on the top step of the Tour de France.Sport is not still sport! Maybe 30 years ago yes. But today sport is business as is everything else. That is the reality of it. If in business the accountant or lawyer or doctor does something wrong they can't practice their business/profession anymore. Why the difference with cycling? Why the difference with any sport? If you think that sport is still sport then you are incredibly naive!!!!![/quote'] Landis is paying for this crime. Life ban net necessary - I believe he would not have opted for PED's if he knew the reality of serving a doping ban and trying to make a comeback. So increasing the minimum ban time will help to make more riders not even want to consider doping.And sport has changed from 30 years back - its way more professional now and lots of cash at stake, but its still a "job" to entertain - so not the same as everyday job. No one pays to watch a accountant do his/her work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyr249 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Criminalize doping? We must now go through the expense of getting yet more laws through parliament because a couple of skinny guys with shaved legs cant behave. I think we have bigger fish to fry regards criminality in South Africa. Doping is a criminal offence in France and a few other European countries I think but definitely in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyr249 Posted February 10, 2010 Share If rider emmigrate then that is good. It will leave the clean riders behind. Take Oscar Perreiro. He won the Tour because Landis was disqualified. But who stood on the top step in Paris - Landis. Perreiro' date=' being the clean rider, was denied the emotion and glory of standing on the top step of the Tour de France. Sport is not still sport! Maybe 30 years ago yes. But today sport is business as is everything else. That is the reality of it. If in business the accountant or lawyer or doctor does something wrong they can't practice their business/profession anymore. Why the difference with cycling? Why the difference with any sport? If you think that sport is still sport then you are incredibly naive!!!!![/quote']Landis is paying for this crime. Life ban net necessary - I believe he would not have opted for PED's if he knew the reality of serving a doping ban and trying to make a comeback.So increasing the minimum ban time will help to make more riders not even want to consider doping.And sport has changed from 30 years back - its way more professional now and lots of cash at stake, but its still a "job" to entertain - so not the same as everyday job. No one pays to watch a accountant do his/her work... Are you really saying that? So an accountant can commit fraud because nobody is paying to watch him do his job?Is doping "entertainment" now? Because that is what you said!!Andyr2492010-02-10 07:01:14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny calves Posted February 10, 2010 Share Come now Guys! If Jesus forgave our sins' date=' who are we not to forgive Nolan? Beside the ban, the guy is a great talent for SA cycling. His record speaks for itself[/quote'] Is it really? How do we know that those results were not assisted by juice? Do you want kids to see Nolan as a role model? If the world is coming to the point where we see cheats as role models that the situation is extremely sad! Look, the guy is paying 18 months for his doping. What more do you want him to do? And yes it was stupid of him to it, but we are only human and we do screw up sometimes. And I think kids can see him as a role model cause he admitted that he made a mistake and we are not perfect. Lets just hope that he'll be back after his ban with a bang and be doing what he's known for doing best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASTANA Posted February 10, 2010 Share Come now Guys! If Jesus forgave our sins' date=' who are we not to forgive Nolan? Beside the ban, the guy is a great talent for SA cycling. His record speaks for itself[/quote'] Is it really? How do we know that those results were not assisted by juice? Do you want kids to see Nolan as a role model? If the world is coming to tthe point where we see cheats as role models that the situation is extremely sad! That the point of the doping ban - everyone will not believe in him ever again also applying a longer minimum to discourage riders to use PED's, then the ones who do get caught will have to face the music but still has the change to comeback and proof them selves as being naturally good - but its unlikely that they will be able to comeback to top form after lets say 4 years.. Role model: One must admire the athlete for the athlete he is, not as a human being. People make mistakes and have to pay for it, but being a great athlete is priceless and no one can take that away from you. Pantani - he is still a legend no mater what. Tiger with this issues off the course - he is still a role model. Disappointed a lot of fans and people but still a role model, no matter what they say. Role model is not the fraudster - but the athlete and the image around the athlete. The person himself is just another person with the same issues as all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASTANA Posted February 10, 2010 Share If rider emmigrate then that is good. It will leave the clean riders behind. Take Oscar Perreiro. He won the Tour because Landis was disqualified. But who stood on the top step in Paris - Landis. Perreiro' date=' being the clean rider, was denied the emotion and glory of standing on the top step of the Tour de France. Sport is not still sport! Maybe 30 years ago yes. But today sport is business as is everything else. That is the reality of it. If in business the accountant or lawyer or doctor does something wrong they can't practice their business/profession anymore. Why the difference with cycling? Why the difference with any sport? If you think that sport is still sport then you are incredibly naive!!!!![/quote'] Landis is paying for this crime. Life ban net necessary - I believe he would not have opted for PED's if he knew the reality of serving a doping ban and trying to make a comeback. So increasing the minimum ban time will help to make more riders not even want to consider doping.And sport has changed from 30 years back - its way more professional now and lots of cash at stake, but its still a "job" to entertain - so not the same as everyday job. No one pays to watch a accountant do his/her work... Are you really saying that? So an accountant can commit fraud because nobody is paying to watch him do his job? Is doping "entertainment" now? Because that is what you said!! ag man. NO. Its a sport, give 2nd chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kritzie Posted February 10, 2010 Share Come now Guys! If Jesus forgave our sins' date=' who are we not to forgive Nolan? Beside the ban, the guy is a great talent for SA cycling. His record speaks for itself[/quote'] Is it really? How do we know that those results were not assisted by juice? Do you want kids to see Nolan as a role model? If the world is coming to the point where we see cheats as role models that the situation is extremely sad! Look, the guy is paying 18 months for his doping. What more do you want him to do? And yes it was stupid of him to it, but we are only human and we do screw up sometimes. And I think kids can see him as a role model cause he admitted that he made a mistake and we are not perfect. Lets just hope that he'll be back after his ban with a bang and be doing what he's known for doing best. Just that well have less BANG for our buck, a cheat will never gain the respect or believe that he has performed naturally again. In my eyes a cheat forever!!!!!! If we teach our kids that you can get away so lightly from something as serious as this, I gues that makes us bad parents!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kritzie Posted February 10, 2010 Share Tiger Woods a role model? Fu.. that funny!!! Oops ye your right. One ROLE in the hay too much I think!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyr249 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Come now Guys! If Jesus forgave our sins' date=' who are we not to forgive Nolan? Beside the ban, the guy is a great talent for SA cycling. His record speaks for itself[/quote'] Is it really? How do we know that those results were not assisted by juice? Do you want kids to see Nolan as a role model? If the world is coming to the point where we see cheats as role models that the situation is extremely sad! Look, the guy is paying 18 months for his doping. What more do you want him to do? And yes it was stupid of him to it, but we are only human and we do screw up sometimes. And I think kids can see him as a role model cause he admitted that he made a mistake and we are not perfect. Lets just hope that he'll be back after his ban with a bang and be doing what he's known for doing best. Just that well have less BANG for our buck, a cheat will never gain the respect or believe that he has performed naturally again. In my eyes a cheat forever!!!!!! If we teach our kids that you can get away so lightly from something as serious as this, I gues that makes us bad parents!!!!! Exactly!!! Well said Kritzie.The fact is that if you are an athlete or any person that that is well know and in the public eye then you must be prepared to be scrutinised in all aspects of your life. Pantani is a legend, for the right and wrong reasons. If dying from a cocain overdose a good example? You can't exclude certain things and include others. It is the whole person who is looked at. If you are in the public eye you have to be even more careful of how you conduct yourself in all aspects of you life. Kids don't distinguish between good athletic performance and how the person conducts himself/herself. They see the person and want to be like that person! It is better for kids to have Lance as their role models than Pantani. Both had some good athletic results and abilities. But Lance has not failed a dope test or been sanctioned for doping whilest Pantani too drugs and died of an overdose. Which would you prefer your kids to be look up to?Dopers should get a minimum of 5 years for first offence if they co-operate. If they don't then a longer sentence at the discretion of the hearing. But it has to be harsh.Sport is business now and the business world is very harsh! Sport was even harsh in ancient Rome. If you didn't put up a good fight as a Gladiator then you were killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serendipity Posted February 10, 2010 Share Speaking from a legal point of view, I believe organizers of races should put in a clause with their indemnities in the form of a statement - that the rider declares that he has not used any performance enhancing or other banned substance. That way - when riders do get caught using these substances - I could make a pretty compelling case to prosecute them for fraud in a criminal court. That will definitely make a rider think twice before using banned substances if he can get banned for a few years, and get a criminal record. Sport at the professional level is no longer a sport - it is a profession. It is a job like any other. If a professional person is caught doing something unethical or illegal he will most likely be disbarred, struck from the roll, or otherwise be prohibited from doing this profession, and charged criminally. I see no reason for professional sportsmen to be treated any different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispy Posted February 10, 2010 Share Speaking from a legal point of view' date=' I believe organizers of races should put in a clause with their indemnities in the form of a statement - that the rider declares that he has not used any performance enhancing or other banned substance. That way - when riders do get caught using these substances - I could make a pretty compelling case to prosecute them for fraud in a criminal court. That will definitely make a rider think twice before using banned substances if he can get banned for a few years, and get a criminal record. Sport at the professional level is no longer a sport - it is a profession. It is a job like any other. If a professional person is caught doing something unethical or illegal he will most likely be disbarred, struck from the roll, or otherwise be prohibited from doing this profession, and charged criminally. I see no reason for professional sportsmen to be treated any different.[/quote'] I like the idea but will it stand in a court of law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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