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Rocket Ron issues


Funkman
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I recently accuired a pair of Schwalbe Rocket Rons Evo 2.2 tyres. They were about 95% new. I think non-UST.

 

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<DIV>I rode with them for a few weeks with tubes but decided to cenvert them to tubeless(ghetto style!!!). After following some other threads on the hub, with do's and dont's,  I thought i'd give it a shot.</DIV>

 

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<DIV>Please help!!!!</DIV>

 

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Only ever use Doc Blu sealant with Schwalbe tyres else you will void the warranty. PM Shamus for advice. He is the sole agent for Schwalbe in SA.

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Also i don't think those tyres are designed for conversion.  they are pretty thin on the walls and prone to blowing.  i used a patch on the inside of the tyre that worked really well.  a piece of thickish rubber glued to the inside holds the tear and won't let the tube through.  hope you come right...

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I had the same with Racing Ralphs. They are not the tubeless versions and not made to seal without a tube. I used a thin sealant and mixed it with OKO. It worked a treat but took a while and a good few cycles of pump, shake leave on side.

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Thanks for replies guys. Mutt can u tell me what thin sealant u used?

I got the green stuff with black beads in? Will those work?
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Have a look at the pic here of what happened to one of my Schwalbe tyres as I didn't use Doc Blu sealant: https://www.bikehub.co.za/forum_posts.asp?TID=45881&KW=Schwalbe

This is on page 3 of the same thread:

 

 


http://www.schwalbetires.com/warranty_disclaimer

Warranty Disclaimer


http://www.schwalbetires.com/images/error3.gif


The use of any brand other than SCHWALBE?s ?self-sealing? products and/or aftermarket ?sealant? systems for the purpose of converting a non-tubeless tire to tubeless, used either on non-UST rims or UST rims, will void any warranty given by the tire manufacturer.

The use of any brand other than SCHWALBE?s ?self-sealing? products may over time degrade the interior wall of tires, especially non-tubeless tires, resulting in a blistering of the tread and surface layer on the exterior of the tire. This is not a manufacturing defect but the result of an incompatibility of the sealant with the rubber compound and therefore not considered a warranty issue.

 

I have been using Doc Blu ever since and haven't had any issues.
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You can buy it off the shelf. Just ask your bike shop to order it if they don't have stock. It is reasonably priced too.

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Funkman, the problem is you tyre is not a UST tyre and thus has thin and quite porous sidewalls.

 

Use a thins sealant like stans(its the best, leave that doc blue stuff alone) that will cover the sidewall and seal the holes.  Your current sealant is too thick to do this. 

 

I cant see how a warranty can bother you with a tyre, its light so either you will cut the sidewall at some point or they will wear out and you will buy new tyres. 

 

The bubble thing is nonsense, this is a fault in the making of the tyre and not the sealants fault !

 

Hope this helps.

WW.
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Weight Weenie, have you ever used Doc Blu?

Schwalbes are not cheap but for me they are worth it. I paid over R600 for a tyre and perhaps you can afford to replace tyres on a very regular basis but I can't therefore a warranty is important to me. Each to their though I guess. Doc Blu works as well as Stans and costs about the same too so why not use it?

The tyre of mine that got a bubble had been used for quite a few months so I'm sure if it was a manufacture fault I would have picked it up earlier.

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Im willing to experiment with these tyres. I'll try the blue stuff or the stans. But was there not issues wih amonia in some sealants damaging tyres?

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Stans apparently has ammonia in it:

 

 

The Ammonia found in Stan's is dissolved ammonia in water' date=' called Ammonium Hydroxide.

I took the following from Wiki:

 

Household ammonia is dilute ammonium hydroxide, which is also an ingredient of numerous other cleaning agents.[Lefty Adds: its used in these products due to it's oxidising nature

Prepare paintwork for newly painting an already painted surface by cleaning the painted surface with household ammonia or ammonium hydroxide.

In industry, ammonium hydroxide is used as a precursor to some alkyl amines, although anhydrous ammonia is usually preferred. Hexamethylenetetramine forms readily from aqueous ammonia and formaldehyde. Ethylenediamine forms from 1,2-dichloroethane and aqueous ammonia.[2]

Ammonium hydroxide is used in the meat packing industry. Some companies add ammonium hydroxide to their beef.

 

The issue with this stuff is that in saturated solutions, when the temperature rises, the Ammonia disassociates form the water releasing ammonia gas. This can cause the bursting bubble effect in the tyre if the ammonium hydroxide solution has been transported into the tyre casing with the sealant.

Mtb Tyres do get warm, not F1 tyre warm but warm enough to disassociate Ammonia from the solution.

 

Yes Ammonium hydroxide is a preservative. Ammonia on the other hand is a refrigerant and highly corrosive (oxidising reactions). Since tyres have numerous materials as filler for the rubber, there are reactions taking place with the ammonia that also result in bubbles and failure.

 

Even the rubber seals on tubeless valve stems are not immune to the effects of ammonium hydroxide.
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Here's a post about doing a tubeless conversion with Racing Ralphs. https://www.bikehub.co.za/forum_posts.asp?TID=42723

 

It does work with Stans but if you read the post by Shamus (Schwalbe rep) you will see it is not recommended by Schwalbe. I only had issues with one of my tyres when I ran a Stans/Oko tubeless setup.

 

I reckon both Stans and Doc Blu would do the job but I am not willing to risk voiding the warranty or picking up issues during a race and that is why I chose to go with the safest option.

 
Dibles2010-02-18 14:04:10
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No tubes stated http://messageboard.notubes.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1597 on their forum that the delaminating/bubling is caused by faults in the tyre/tube from the manufacturers side and not by their sealant.

Kenda, maxxis also state that sealant voids the warranty but there was batch issues with the crossmarks for example that were sorted out and the tyres exchanged, voila no more bubbles. 

 

From the video on no tubes where the sealants are tested, stans stays liquid MUCH longer with others drying hard in about a day or so.  read this as well http://www.notubes.com/pdf/VN052305.pdf 

 

But I guess if you want to be safe do the recommended thing, each to his own as you say.  BTW what issue did you have with stans/oko ?
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