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Posted (edited)

My fairly new Rock shock SID does not depress to it's full travel. It is always at 10% travel without me on the bike. It is also very stiff. If I pump it (top air chamber 1st, bottom air chamber 2nd) to the recommended pressure, I cannot depress it more than about 40mm when pushing down on the fork with my full body weight. With my ex fox RL100 I could depress it about 80mm when sag was set at 10%.

 

Is this normal for a Rock shock?

 

PS: No, it is not on lockout :)

Edited by KnobbyMech
Posted

Not normal. What happens when you let all the air out?

I have found that the rock shox forks need to be ridden a bit before they work 100%, think its the oil that needs to go to the right places.

Posted

Not normal. What happens when you let all the air out?

I have found that the rock shox forks need to be ridden a bit before they work 100%, think its the oil that needs to go to the right places.

 

If I let all the air out top and bottom, the fork just depress completely unassistant. If i let all the air out the bottom only it does go to full travel potensial (0% travel).

I did about 100hr with the fork and it has been like this from the start.

Posted (edited)

My fairly new Rock shock SID does not depress to it's full travel. It is always at 10% travel without me on the bike. It is also very stiff. If I pump it (top air chamber 1st, bottom air chamber 2nd) to the recommended pressure, I cannot depress it more than about 40mm when pushing down on the fork with my full body weight. With my ex fox RL100 I could depress it about 80mm when sag was set at 10%.

 

Is this normal for a Rock shock?

 

PS: No, it is not on lockout :)

 

 

hey there.

 

i got a a Rock Shock SID and had the same prob after i got it back from a service, cos it was set up by the LBS first time and was working fine, but after service was very stiff.

iv found the best is to play around with the - and + air settings and ride it by feel.

- air setting are for small bumps, more air = softer ride. + air setting for the big hits, more air = harder ride on big hits.

i have my air setting on 115psi for -, and 130psi for +. i am 2metres tall and weigh 95kg.

my sag is on about 30%. they say 10 - 35% sag is recommended, depends on rider.

i have found that with more sag you have sharper turning, as fork doesn't depress on the turns as much.

i am still playing around with the + air settings, as havnt got full full travel yet, but ride feels good and dont wanna mess with it to much...\

 

sorry for the long story, but hope that helps :unsure:

Edited by spaso9
Posted (edited)

Besides playing with pressure's... Sid's needs foam ring service very often... I've serviced one which were very stiff after a LBS service because they didn't put any oil on the foam rings OR inside the lowers... it was dry!

 

I drop some oil on the stanchoins every ride, depress and clean before I go. I've used about every product incl the very expensive finish line stanchoin lube....

 

I let the bike sleep upside down every now and then. I take the lowers off every month.

 

Very interesting photos and video's coming soon. I've been working on it for a few months now. I have been uysing Sid's for a while, but in August started with 2 brand new Sids. I've been documenting every bit of their service schedule. Even replaced the brand new RS dust scrapers with Enduro one's, only kept them for 2 weeks before going back to the std ones.

 

Bottom line is the open bath oil can't really reach the upper bush, no matter how hard you bottom it. And also, the rec. RS pressure is way too high. But also, a lubed Sid should be buttery smooth with not a hint of stiction. Mine really feels like I'm floating on air.

 

With too much oil in the open bath, you also won't be able to compress the fork fully.

 

Do you have the tools to remove the lowers? (long 10mm socket and long 5mm allenkey?) This is something you should consider getting and doing yourself as it's an important part of servicing that needs to be performed every 1000km or so if you want the fork to feel like new.

The most important is to make sure there's oil on the foam rings, and to make sure the lowers slide up and down easily, then look into settings.

 

I run 11 clicks rebound from fully open, 70kg rider, Sid set to 100mm, Positive 80Psi, Negative 80 Psi. For a 53kg rider I have it at 50+ and 50-, 9 clicks rebound.

 

For starters:

 

Deflate the + and - chambers, set rebound to fully open, no lockout.

 

Now try to compress the fork and see how far you get it down. You should be able to hit the bottom out stop rubber.

 

Next pump the + chamber to 50 Psi and bump the fork, with 50 Psi, you'll be able to compress it very easily and also feel if there's stiction in the bushes. If the fork doesn't bounce up and down like butter, something inside is dry, OR the compression damping doesn't fully open.

 

Start by taking your weight in pounds (roughly) devide by 2 and pump the + and - chambers the (pounds / 2) Psi.. So for a 160 pound rider 80 Psi top and bottom.

 

That's a start, but if the fork is dry inside, it WILL have stiction... even some brand new one's that's lubed, have tighter bushing tolerances and will be tighter for a while... I've taken brand new ones apart that barely had any oil inside...

 

For lubing the foam rings, I use Castrol BOT 402 fully synthetic transmision oil, the thinner oils run down too quickly, leaving you with a 'dry' upper bush...

Edited by Brighter-Lights
Posted

Check rock shox website manuals are available, if you cant find it PM me and I'll email you a copy.

 

Could possibly be that oil has escaped from the stantions and is laying in the bottom of the castings, or there is something wrong with the dampener itself

 

Best is to open it up and followi Bright lights advice along with the Rock shox maual.

 

Chears

Posted

Besides playing with pressure's... Sid's needs foam ring service very often... I've serviced one which were very stiff after a LBS service because they didn't put any oil on the foam rings OR inside the lowers... it was dry!

 

I drop some oil on the stanchoins every ride, depress and clean before I go. I've used about every product incl the very expensive finish line stanchoin lube....

 

I let the bike sleep upside down every now and then. I take the lowers off every month.

 

Very interesting photos and video's coming soon. I've been working on it for a few months now. I have been uysing Sid's for a while, but in August started with 2 brand new Sids. I've been documenting every bit of their service schedule. Even replaced the brand new RS dust scrapers with Enduro one's, only kept them for 2 weeks before going back to the std ones.

 

Bottom line is the open bath oil can't really reach the upper bush, no matter how hard you bottom it. And also, the rec. RS pressure is way too high. But also, a lubed Sid should be buttery smooth with not a hint of stiction. Mine really feels like I'm floating on air.

 

With too much oil in the open bath, you also won't be able to compress the fork fully.

 

Do you have the tools to remove the lowers? (long 10mm socket and long 5mm allenkey?) This is something you should consider getting and doing yourself as it's an important part of servicing that needs to be performed every 1000km or so if you want the fork to feel like new.

The most important is to make sure there's oil on the foam rings, and to make sure the lowers slide up and down easily, then look into settings.

 

I run 11 clicks rebound from fully open, 70kg rider, Sid set to 100mm, Positive 80Psi, Negative 80 Psi. For a 53kg rider I have it at 50+ and 50-, 9 clicks rebound.

 

For starters:

 

Deflate the + and - chambers, set rebound to fully open, no lockout.

 

Now try to compress the fork and see how far you get it down. You should be able to hit the bottom out stop rubber.

 

Next pump the + chamber to 50 Psi and bump the fork, with 50 Psi, you'll be able to compress it very easily and also feel if there's stiction in the bushes. If the fork doesn't bounce up and down like butter, something inside is dry, OR the compression damping doesn't fully open.

 

Start by taking your weight in pounds (roughly) devide by 2 and pump the + and - chambers the (pounds / 2) Psi.. So for a 160 pound rider 80 Psi top and bottom.

 

That's a start, but if the fork is dry inside, it WILL have stiction... even some brand new one's that's lubed, have tighter bushing tolerances and will be tighter for a while... I've taken brand new ones apart that barely had any oil inside...

 

For lubing the foam rings, I use Castrol BOT 402 fully synthetic transmision oil, the thinner oils run down too quickly, leaving you with a 'dry' upper bush...

 

Nice Post BL!

 

 

All I want to add is that often when lack of full compression is evident and it is an air shock, that there is to much oil on top of the air piston. More than 5ml on top of the piston dramatically increases the ramp-up of the spring rate, to the point where you cannot hit the bottom out bumper with no air and all compression damping off.

 

Out of interest, Marzocchi has a new stiction-free seal kit that costs a bomb. It is an after-market part that's intended for racers with big budgets. I compared its stiction to that of standard seals and the difference is phenomenal.

 

How about a plug for my fork service workshop next Saturday - 20 November, in Jhb.

Posted

Cool thread, from what I can gather I have exactly the same issue with my 08 sid wc.

 

Been back to shop where I bought it, they said I had the - set too hard.

Was fine for a while and went back to its old ways.

Also had it serviced a while back at great cost, issue still not resolved.

 

I also seem to get some type of oil coming out the - and + side.

Also, cant seem to get the - keep pressure, have changed valves and used different shock pumps. Pump t0 80 psi, take i off, check pressure then its like 45-50psi.

Any help ?

Posted (edited)

All I want to add is that often when lack of full compression is evident and it is an air shock, that there is to much oil on top of the air piston. More than 5ml on top of the piston dramatically increases the ramp-up of the spring rate, to the point where you cannot hit the bottom out bumper with no air and all compression damping off.

 

Out of interest, Marzocchi has a new stiction-free seal kit that costs a bomb. It is an after-market part that's intended for racers with big budgets. I compared its stiction to that of standard seals and the difference is phenomenal.

 

My Revelation dual air had similar symptoms (I could only get about 50% travel regardless of pressure), getting it back from Cape Cycle Systems included a note saying "too much oil!", which was weird seeing as it was fine for a couple of months before that. Johan, you might recall that I asked you at a stage why there was oil dripping out through the bottom negative valve when inflating it, I guess it makes sense now.

 

I've always wondered whether I was only imagining less stiction after lubing the stanchions with Pedros Synlube... Bearing your seal kit comment in mind, is it a pointless thing to do (so I am actually imagining it) or is it a worthwhile excercise? I'm kinda caught inbetween the trade-off between it reducing the dust wiper's stiction and the extra muck it attracts; which probably kills the wiper in the long term.

Edited by Martin Hattingh
Posted

Besides playing with pressure's... Sid's needs foam ring service very often... I've serviced one which were very stiff after a LBS service because they didn't put any oil on the foam rings OR inside the lowers... it was dry!

 

I drop some oil on the stanchoins every ride, depress and clean before I go. I've used about every product incl the very expensive finish line stanchoin lube....

 

I let the bike sleep upside down every now and then. I take the lowers off every month.

 

Very interesting photos and video's coming soon. I've been working on it for a few months now. I have been uysing Sid's for a while, but in August started with 2 brand new Sids. I've been documenting every bit of their service schedule. Even replaced the brand new RS dust scrapers with Enduro one's, only kept them for 2 weeks before going back to the std ones.

 

Bottom line is the open bath oil can't really reach the upper bush, no matter how hard you bottom it. And also, the rec. RS pressure is way too high. But also, a lubed Sid should be buttery smooth with not a hint of stiction. Mine really feels like I'm floating on air.

 

With too much oil in the open bath, you also won't be able to compress the fork fully.

 

Do you have the tools to remove the lowers? (long 10mm socket and long 5mm allenkey?) This is something you should consider getting and doing yourself as it's an important part of servicing that needs to be performed every 1000km or so if you want the fork to feel like new.

The most important is to make sure there's oil on the foam rings, and to make sure the lowers slide up and down easily, then look into settings.

 

I run 11 clicks rebound from fully open, 70kg rider, Sid set to 100mm, Positive 80Psi, Negative 80 Psi. For a 53kg rider I have it at 50+ and 50-, 9 clicks rebound.

 

For starters:

 

Deflate the + and - chambers, set rebound to fully open, no lockout.

 

Now try to compress the fork and see how far you get it down. You should be able to hit the bottom out stop rubber.

 

Next pump the + chamber to 50 Psi and bump the fork, with 50 Psi, you'll be able to compress it very easily and also feel if there's stiction in the bushes. If the fork doesn't bounce up and down like butter, something inside is dry, OR the compression damping doesn't fully open.

 

Start by taking your weight in pounds (roughly) devide by 2 and pump the + and - chambers the (pounds / 2) Psi.. So for a 160 pound rider 80 Psi top and bottom.

 

That's a start, but if the fork is dry inside, it WILL have stiction... even some brand new one's that's lubed, have tighter bushing tolerances and will be tighter for a while... I've taken brand new ones apart that barely had any oil inside...

 

For lubing the foam rings, I use Castrol BOT 402 fully synthetic transmision oil, the thinner oils run down too quickly, leaving you with a 'dry' upper bush...

 

I assume all of this applies to the REBA family too?

Posted

 

cut cut cut cut

 

 

Johan, you might recall that I asked you at a stage why there was oil dripping out through the bottom negative valve when inflating it, I guess it makes sense now.

 

I've always wondered whether I was only imagining less stiction after lubing the stanchions with Pedros Synlube... Bearing your seal kit comment in mind, is it a pointless thing to do (so I am actually imagining it) or is it a worthwhile excercise? I'm kinda caught inbetween the trade-off between it reducing the dust wiper's stiction and the extra muck it attracts; which probably kills the wiper in the long term.

 

Sorry, I don't recall. For oil to come out the negative valve, the + Air piston has to have a leak and the float on on top of that had to leak down into the negative chamber. Fruther, that chamber inflates through a hole at the top of the chamber (obviously via the valve at the bottom) and the fork will have to be upside down at the time of you opening the valve for any leaked oil to come out there.

 

All I can say is that if that happens, it is a big mess and you should open it up and replace all the O-rings on the spring side.

 

Without having tried that specific oil on the stanchion, I can't really comment and say it will work. My guess is that it will work for a short while and then the oil will be gone in anyway. Taht is sticky stuff, so I do think it will create an awfull mess.

 

My thoughs on external stanchion oil is that it is all snake oil - made in Switzerland or not.

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