and the oscar goes to ?

[Sean]

and who knew the Hub had an additional feature... the dating service...

Any chance you could give Megan McKenzie MY number?

[Tumbleweed]

let me speak to her brother first, i lost her number when they stole my phone. let me get back to you  

[Red Zone]

He DID NOT win the TdF. It doesn't matter what they say' date=' he didn't win it. It's not the same thing. I agree that Landis "cheated" (certainly the courts ruled so), and that he should be disqualified etc, but he won the Tour.  

[/quote']

 

I disagree, because Floyd cheated he is removed from the event, it is as if he wasnt there at all, as such he could not win it. Landis knowingly broke the rules which he agreed to when he entered the TDF and as such can not WIN. It would be the same thing if he hopped into the team car for a few km's up a mountain pass and then re-emerged in front of the field, he took a banned substance, benefitted and finished in the lead, not a win at all.

[Zoo Cookie]

oooo, I am going to sit by the phone, day and night , night and day.....

[racman]

 

I disagree' date=' because Floyd cheated he is removed from the event, it is as if he wasnt there at all, as such he could not win it. Landis knowingly broke the rules which he agreed to when he entered the TDF and as such can not WIN. It would be the same thing if he hopped into the team car for a few km's up a mountain pass and then re-emerged in front of the field, he took a banned substance, benefitted and finished in the lead, not a win at all.

[/quote']

There is a differance between the declared winner and the actual winner. While I agree that Landis has been declared a cheat and disqualified, you cannot take away the fact that he actually won the TdF. The fact that it was "discovered" that Riis and co (pick a name, any name) were also cheating also doesn't change the fact that they actually won the TdF. WHo knows when it will be "discovered" that others also cheated. Not to "flog a dead horse" again but it is a total farce until a unilateral charter and accredited testing procedures etc are firmly put in place and enforced once and for all.

 

my 3c 

[Tumbleweed]

oooo' date=' I am going to sit by the phone, day and night , night and day.....[/quote']

 

[Sean]

The last 3 posts illustrate the 'hidden' damage that these dopers cause to cycling. Dissension in the ranks, uncertainty and disagreement as to the actual winner of the event. And this is among people who clearly love the sport, so imagine the non-fans and critics! The 2007 TdeF (and many of prior years) is forever tainted. Who would want his name forever linked to that?

I also agree that even though Pereiro has been declared the winner, who really feels that he won? We all saw Landis take the glory on the podium, I'll bet Pereiro doesn;t feel like he really won it either. I'd like to see an interview with him to hear how he views it.

Sickening isn't it? Thank heavens there are so many honourable, dedicated and enthusiastic cyclists out there to ensure the sport survives.

[Red Zone]

This is an issue of profound philosophical proportions and can be debated at nausium, which I have no intention of doing, so will agree that you have a point, depending on your interpretation of winning (crossing the line first by any means or doing it without assistance)

 

Rijs has been stripped of any mention in the Tour History, it is as if he did not  take part in the event.

 

I agree that Landis and Rijs did finish first and therefore "won" but would be fogged to death with a sweaty chamois pad if they ever tried to get mileage out of it.

[racman]

FF - I agree. Was merely trying to illustrate what "Sean" so eloquenty summarised for me. To quote my earlier summary "it's a F@#$%& farce !!!" (I thought it was more eloquent than "Sean"'s summary though)

[Sean]

FF - I agree. Was merely trying to illustrate what "Sean" so eloquenty summarised for me. To quote my earlier summary "it's a F@#$%& farce !!!" (I thought it was more eloquent than "Sean"'s summary though)

 

I have to agree, will try do better next time

[Red Zone]

Agreed racman, BTW only just got the pun in the post title.

[Tumbleweed]

Agreed racman' date=' BTW only just got the pun in the post title.[/quote']

 

someone still not quite awake?

[Red Zone]

Agreed racman' date=' BTW only just got the pun in the post title.[/quote']

 

someone still not quite awake?

Other things on my mind

[GreyOwl]

Ok, I'm not trying to cause any trouble here, I just want an opinion. I'm new to the Hub, so this may be an already debated topic. Do you think Landis used the testosterone? I dont. I cannot see the benefit of a top pro cyclist using testosterone in this day and age. Maybe in the early 80's, but not now. BetaMax has no place in a digital age,neither does Testosterone...especially when it is SO easily detected in a Tox screen, and is a very dirty and difficult drug to get rid of.

 

Also, Perriero is walking a very fine line, because he has been caught 'testing' the boundaries of the doping rules a few years ago. I agree, it is a total farce. I am lately shy of admitting that I am a cyclist because peoples first reaction is that you are also full of EPO & other crap. I accept that no one cyclist will ever be bigger than the actual sport, but the damage they are doing is becoming irreversible. Will the Tour (& the sport) survive??

[Spinnekop]

Ok' date=' I'm not trying to cause any trouble here, I just want an opinion. I'm new to the Hub, so this may be an already debated topic. Do you think Landis used the testosterone? I dont. I cannot see the benefit of a top pro cyclist using testosterone in this day and age. Maybe in the early 80's, but not now. BetaMax has no place in a digital age,neither does Testosterone...especially when it is SO easily detected in a Tox screen, and is a very dirty and difficult drug to get rid of.
Also, Perriero is walking a very fine line, because he has been caught 'testing' the boundaries of the doping rules a few years ago. I agree, it is a total farce. I am lately shy of admitting that I am a cyclist because peoples first reaction is that you are also full of EPO & other crap. I accept that no one cyclist will ever be bigger than the actual sport, but the damage they are doing is becoming irreversible. Will the Tour (& the sport) survive?? [/quote']

 

Valid points wise one.

 

This has been discussed A LOT.  Go have a look.  Some of it was very interesting.

 

There are a couple of VALID theories which I would LOVE to know which is the truth.

As I think Linnega said back then, pro cyclists are not the sharpest people on the planet.  No offence.  They hear something works and then they do it without knowing exactly what the 'produckt' actually does.  Testosterone is known as a good recovery 'tool' so maybe Landis decided to use it and try and see if he could recover from the bad day he had.  Without knowing that it would actually only help him on the long run.  (All said and done but it is still illegal!  But it would explain why Testosterone was used....)

He used something else and in the process screwed up the testosterone levels.  Maybe there is another drug / enhancer that the pro's use that has 'side effects'.  I don't know.  Remember his testosterone was not high per say but the ratio was screwed. 

He had sex with 20 woman and drank 4 bottles of wisky.  Because Americans CAN. 

 

[GreyOwl]

Spinnekop, I agree with your notion that Pro Cyclists are not the smartest. However, I doubt said Pro's would be in charge of buying their own dope...surely medical staff would do that, as well as the administration of the dope?

 

And I cannot deny the "Americans can" mentality!!! If Landis did take, then he has to be the dumbest rider on the planet