zabel Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Has anyone actually read the new CSA rules for road racing 2011? http://www.cyclingsa.com/App_Resources/Uploads/FILE00000154.pdf Here are some interesting extracts from the rules? A. Why the Changes? To comply with Cycling SA’s 2020 Vision of placing cycling SA in the Top 10 of the World To change attitude from being a participant to being a competitor To lessen the jump from local racing to international racing To align ourselves with general team and entry conditions of the top races in the World To create a competitive atmosphere within club teamsBasic overview To establish a ‘strength to strength’ group outside the normal age categories with emphasis on the development of team structures in the junior, U23 and Elite categories. This is quite funny because they have hardly changed anything with regards to Elite racing. The groups stay the same as previously except that individuals can’t race in this group anymore (don’t know how that helps SA cycling) and that the teams racing there have to pay a R2000 registration fee (KCHING). No more prize money for the toppies either. All age cats now have to race in 1 group for 1 purse. D. Prize Money Category 1 Race • Overall Top 10 positions • Elite/U23 Men Top 3 • Veteran Men 30+ Top 3 • Jnr Men Top 3 Category 2 Race • Overall Top 10 positions (it doesn’t matter whether male or female) • Women Top 6 (if applicable) • Remaining prize-funding up to organisers discretion Category 3 Race • Overall Top 10 positions (it doesn’t matter whether male or female) • Women Top 6 (if applicable) • Remaining prize-funding up to organisers discretion Category 4 Race • Overall Top 5 positions No Elite or U23 rider is eligible for prize-money in any other category than category 1. And wait the best of all there is a new abbreviation that CSA have come up with....... a PDI..... Previously Disadvantaged Individual. This is what they say about these guys. j. A Previously Disadvantaged Individual (PDI) is a black rider who for purposes of definition only, is not white and who must be a South African Citizen. – Sorry Doug Ryder you going to have to replace your African riders with a PDI. And here comes the pinnacle.... the QUOTA system..... Team Composition: a. Minimum 4 riders – Maximum 8 riders (to participated), Maximum 9 riders (to register) b. A 9th rider may be added to a sponsored top club on the following conditions: i. A mountain bike U23 rider who has to participate in 75% of the events stipulated as selection races by the Cycling SA Mountain Bike Commission. OR ii. An Elite track rider who has to participate in 75% of the all National Series & Grand Prix events. c. Ages of the riders: i. Maximum 4 elite riders born before 1 January 1985 of any nationality * ii. 1 x U21 South African rider (1st or 2nd year U23 during 2011) as 5th rider iii. 1 x PDI South African rider as 6th rider (any age) iv. 7th rider can be either a PDI South African or a U26 South African (born after 31 December 1985) rider. v. 8th rider can be either a PDI South African or a U26 South African (born after 31 December 1985) rider. d. Sample Team compositions: i. 5 riders: 4 riders of own choice, 1 rider U21 or PDI ii. 6 riders: 4 riders of own choice, 1 rider U21 and 1 rider PDI iii. 7 riders: 4 riders of own choice, 1 x rider U21, 1 x rider PDI, 1 x rider U26 or PDI iv. 8 riders: 4 riders of own choice, 1 x rider U21, 1 x rider PDI, 2 x riders U26 or PDI v. 9 riders: riders of own choice, 1 x rider U21, 1 x rider PDI, 2 x rider U26 or PDI + either a Track or MTB rider (as per point e. A maximum of 8 riders will start in top club competitions f. Should a PDI rider be an elite athlete, an additional Elite rider will be allowed to make up the total Elite riders as 5 riders Conclusion! CSA you have proven to South Africa that you actually don’t know what you are doing. You are screwing up Veterans racing and they make up the majority of South African Cycling. Take our National Team to go race in Europe, that’s how they are going to improve! It’s a fact just look at our riders John-Lee, Robbie, Daryl, Asheley & Carla they became what they are from racing in Europe.
Spinnekop Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Old news Zabel...... VERY VERY OLD!! Do a search on Hub Land.....lots of threads. I for one sincerely hope Vets racing is DEAD! Time to race guys that has the same ability as me (Not that I have ability but it is the thought that counts!!! ).....wheather he is 20, 30,40 or 50! If you competed in the Superseries back in 2008 I think, then you would know it is a good concept!!
gtr1 Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) Old news Zabel...... VERY VERY OLD!! Do a search on Hub Land.....lots of threads. I for one sincerely hope Vets racing is DEAD! Time to race guys that has the same ability as me (Not that I have ability but it is the thought that counts!!! ).....wheather he is 20, 30,40 or 50! If you competed in the Superseries back in 2008 I think, then you would know it is a good concept!! So you're hoping Vets racing is dead because certain riders win more than others???????? What happens when the guys with supposed same ability keep get beaten ????? Looks like we want a society of mediocricy where everyone gets a chance to get a win so that they don't feel left out. Rather than upping there game to be more competitive. Next thing we'll want the not so good junior cyclists to race against the under 12's so that they can beat someone. Sounds crazy. Because lets not discriminate against the vets, but apply the new rules to riders of all age groups. Edited January 20, 2011 by gtr1
Zeps Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Old news Zabel...... VERY VERY OLD!! Do a search on Hub Land.....lots of threads. I for one sincerely hope Vets racing is DEAD! Time to race guys that has the same ability as me (Not that I have ability but it is the thought that counts!!! ).....wheather he is 20, 30,40 or 50! If you competed in the Superseries back in 2008 I think, then you would know it is a good concept!! Gonna whip your ass this year :lol:
Trubie Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 So you're hoping Vets racing is dead because they kept beating you ???????? What you gonna do when the guys with the same ability beat you ????? Looks like we want a society of mediocricy where everyone gets a chance to get a win so that they don't feel left out. Next thing we'll want the not so good junior cyclists to race against the under 12's so that they can beat someone. Sounds crazy. Because lets not discriminate against the vets, but be fair to riders of all age groups. you clearly havent done yr homework................
Zeps Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 So you're hoping Vets racing is dead because they kept beating you ???????? What you gonna do when the guys with the same ability beat you ????? Looks like we want a society of mediocricy where everyone gets a chance to get a win so that they don't feel left out. Next thing we'll want the not so good junior cyclists to race against the under 12's so that they can beat someone. Sounds crazy. Because lets not discriminate against the vets, but be fair to riders of all age groups. You clearly don't know the 8 legged one now do you .........
Spinnekop Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Love this reply!! Thanks GTR1! So you're hoping Vets racing is dead because they kept beating you ???????? Maybe, maybe not. Who cares? Lets say I come first every time. Boring yes? So bring on guys like Andrew and Jacky and DiData etc. Lets RACE and stop tossing around. Lets say I come last every time. I won't make the cut-off for Cat 2 or 3 anyway so that leaves me with.... What does it matter????? What you gonna do when the guys with the same ability beat you ????? Wait wait....this is a trick question right?.....uuuummm.....uuuummm.....Train harder? No wait...wait.....I think I have it....Drop back another Cat and race with the guys of the SAME ability? So see.........right now.....people BUY themselves into the racing groups.......hopefully with the new system you'll EARN your way in..... Not so??? Looks like we want a society of mediocricy where everyone gets a chance to get a win so that they don't feel left out. Dude......I'm going to throw you with the rule book on this one.......Rule 70:The purpose of competing is to win. End of. Any reference to not achieving this should be referred immediately to Rule 5 Rule 5:Harden The Up. Next thing we'll want the not so good junior cyclists to race against the under 12's so that they can beat someone. Sounds crazy. Dude...again....if you as a Junior has the SAME seeding as a U/12, then in THEORY, both have a chance!!!!! Because lets not discriminate against the vets, but be fair to riders of all age groups. Why would this system discriminate against the Vets?????? How in the WORLD do you get to there....please explain? Details....slow!!! I'm not very clever!
scotty Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 TCS were the top vets team last year, soon to be Cat A team to beat ??
gtr1 Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Spinnekop.....I'm not picking on you personally, and should have added if you beat everyone as well as the option of being beaten. What I'm getting at is what you are also saying in a way. You race in an age category. There will always be someone better than you and worse than you. Also hard to be at your best every race. So shouldn't have a case of 1 person winning all the time. If you are not winning you train harder and sharpen up you tactics. If you always win, then up to the others to pick up their game. Don't know why we complicate things by having categories according to ability etc. Will become like golf handicaps and easily manipulated. Already plenty of posts about PPA seedings etc being manipulated. The only reason I mention discriminating against vets is because you seemed glad at the demise of the vets.........no mention of other categories. It all just gives the impression of trying to cater towards the people who aren't competitive, by trying to find a category where they can be competitive. The only way you can ever really achieve that is having bunches/categories of a handful of riders. That will really create *** racing.
gtr1 Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 you clearly havent done yr homework................ Nothing to do with doing my homework. Not picking on anyone personally, responding to the comments. Don't take the "you" in the wrong light. Was a general "you" as in any cyclist competing.
Trubie Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Nothing to do with doing my homework. Not picking on anyone personally, responding to the comments. Don't take the "you" in the wrong light. Was a general "you" as in any cyclist competing. no sweat i was refering to the hubber you were speaking to and the topic which has been debated and debated and debated and debated again......... Up north I do believe that racing vs own ability is the way to go. Currently someone with a seeding of 30 (on national index, not PPA) can enter vets because he has a licence and just be a finisher....... what is the point of that?? Now that person will only be able to ride cat 4 if he is lucky, otherwise open C/D/E where he should have been from the start. Much more fair dont you think?
Spinnekop Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 no sweat i was refering to the hubber you were speaking to and the topic which has been debated and debated and debated and debated again......... Up north I do believe that racing vs own ability is the way to go. Currently someone with a seeding of 30 (on national index, not PPA) can enter vets because he has a licence and just be a finisher....... what is the point of that?? Now that person will only be able to ride cat 4 if he is lucky, otherwise open C/D/E where he should have been from the start. Much more fair dont you think? Much agreed there Trubie. But I think....if I try and read between the lines that GTR1 is a youngster? And in that light, CSA has made some errors, I THINK, in that the juniors/ U/16 etc. have not entry point into the system where they have their own racing group in order to get noticed for the Cat teams. Yes?
Trubie Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Much agreed there Trubie. But I think....if I try and read between the lines that GTR1 is a youngster? And in that light, CSA has made some errors, I THINK, in that the juniors/ U/16 etc. have not entry point into the system where they have their own racing group in order to get noticed for the Cat teams. Yes? jipso much for developing youngsters wonder if Carla would have been 10th at Worlds had she been riding in SA all these years?????
Spinnekop Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 All said and done....in the end, IMO, to move this sport ahead we have to have: Pros. Riding hard, long, difficult races. Earning a living. Development for the Pro category for the youngsters that wants to earn a living in the peleton.Pasionate funriders like myslef doing it for that.....FUN! No money or prizes or nothing involved. If I manage to get a sponsor, team etc. involved, good for me! But in the end it still is just fun not being the activity that brings the bacon home.
1hill@aTime Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I'm gonna beat spinnekop this year i just know it, 63ks this year already, I feel the strenght already
scotty Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I'm gonna beat spinnekop this year i just know it, 63ks this year already, I feel the strenght already Go Lance 1hill@aTime
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