DonatelloOnPinarello

Please don’t take this personal, but I know a good number of folk (and I tend to agree with them), that will assume this means your actually not very good at riding a bike???? Im all for clips, and ride them on everything from my commute bike, to my 170mm enduro rig, but do put flats on from time to time to practice skills. If you cannot bunny hop over a 2 litre coke bottle without “cheating” by using your pedals to pull the rear of the bike up, You need to learn, before going back to cleats. Just do it, and thank me later. pretty much every skills course/trainer I know of refuses to train you with cleats, and for very good reason.

Hi. I’m not overly familiar with the area, but I would personally have some safety concerns with pretty much any route in that area, especially doing an unsupported bike packing trip, which is what I seem to understand from your question. It’s pretty densely populated all the way from Durban to at least Port Shepstone. In my mind a viable bike packing route into the Transkei is only really possible from Port sheptsone on wards. We have done an amazing trip into the Transkei starting from the wild coast sun at Port Edward. Check out http://www.singletrackadventures.co.za/big5explorer-option2/?month=feb&yr=2024 . I have no affiliation, but have done our trip through them, and it was amazing. Even if you want to do a self supported thing, I am sure they can provide some insight and so on, and could help you with accomodation bookings, especially the home stays, which are well worth it, but hard to arrange unless you know who to call…

Depending what “not too much money” is: https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/fat-bikes/490007/fat-cat-pro https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/fat-bikes/488968/titan-whopper-race https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/dual-suspension-bikes/489223/ellsworth-epiphany-26er?referrer=top https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/dual-suspension-bikes/476023/reduced-gt-zaskar-100-team-carbon-dual-great-cond (this GT is technically an XC bike, but they can rip. I had one years back. This is the bike that made me realise you should never sell a bike when you upgrade. I will always miss it)

That moment when you realise that Enduro has in very short span of time lost it’s back to basics roots, and now it’s basically just downhill without the shuttle….???? Best answer here. I don’t know why more South Africans haven’t figured this out yet. Not really relevant to this post, but if one weighs up cost of Sani2C sleeping in a tent in the mud for 3 days, or week of lift assisted riding in Europe and sipping aperol spritz from the verandah of your chalet in the evenings. Buy a trail bike. But keep the DH. You going to get nothing for it, and even if you just use it’s once or twice a season at a shuttle day, keep it. The joy it will give you on those one or two shuttle runs a year are worth more than you going to get for it. Also, if you do opt for Herr Bosch’s brilliant suggestion above, you can save up to 80eur a day on bike rental fees…. Which buys lots of beer. ???? For more sound financial planning advice, tune it at 19:00 for my podcast. We are dealing with the age old question, What do you do when your wife says your bikes are taking up too much room? (Spoiler alert, there’s only two choices)

I’m hoping your comment was tongue in cheek. This is not hard to manage. Not so long ago the pro peloton was racing down alp de huez wheel to wheel, on 20mm tires, and had to let go of the bars to change their non indexed gears on the down tube. While there feet were literally ratcheted down to the pedals. If this cockpit causes a short circuit in your motor reflexes, I hope I never end up riding in a bunch with you…

Bit of a thread resurrect. What’s going on in the hardtail fun hardtail scene locally. Is there anything available with some slack geo and 130+ travel? a cursory glance at the classifieds here and Facebook market place didn’t show much, and new bikes, obviously nothing available now.

I’m with you on what I would want in the bank before I buy a R150k bike, and even then I would think twice. But, the reality is, the current pricing of bikes simply would not be feasible and possible without financing becoming universally accepted, and it’s has, world wide. to ignore the absolute decimation of the rand over the last decade and a half, let’s just consider this using US MSRP prices. I will use 2006 as the reference point, because that’s about the same time that stock standard factory bikes became the norm in the pro peloton. The arms race in bike design had reached the point where the standard frames were good enough, and everyone had moved to carbon that was easy enough to mass produce at the exact same quality that you need for the pros. In 2006, a Madone 5.2, in exactly the same trim ridden in the world tour, cost $3260. Using official USD inflation, the same bike should cost $4390. But, in the list price today for top end world tour bike, the Domane SLR 7 will set you back a cool $8800. Almost exactly double what the purely inflation based price would be. Sure, tech has advanced, but so has production efficiency, and the overall size of the market. Adjusting for inflation, manufacturing these bikes is now cheaper than it was in 2006. It’s easier to sell them now. It simply wouldn’t be feasible to sell bikes at that price if people could not finance them. Pricing is always based on what people are willing to pay. Without finance, very few would be willing to pay that. Let’s not even begin to mention the e-bike editions going at $12500….. they didn’t just take advantage of a new industry to fleece, they enabled the industry to drive pricing into the red, while slowly convincing people the pricing is justifiable.

Seems plausible…. Nothing will surprise me these days. Thing is, the type of person buying a 100k plus bicycle, surely has to have some kind of financial savvy to have gotten themselves into a position to be able to do so, whether financed or bought cash. So surely they realise that a R200k automotive purchase, which unless your credit score is worse than your local municipalities, you would be getting an interest rate of 13% or less, and if you pay it off over three years, you would still have an asset worth around R150k. But financing a 200k bike, your going to be lucky if you get interest under 17% even with a stellar record. Three years later, you will be lucky to get R80k for it. The likes of Wesbank et al getting behind this, and that the NCR even allows this is beyond comprehension. Giving credit to someone willingly accepting this type of agreement should be considered reckless. Never-mind the fact that the wholesale acceptance of “financing” over the last decade has had a direct influence in the absolute runaway prices of bikes and other recreational equipment. Not just hear, it’s a world wide issue. Without the backing of the banks, the industry wouldn’t even dream of actually trying to sell 10k USD bikes outside of the realm of the pro racing teams.

Yeah, but it’s 8 years later, and now bikes cost R200k, and bike finance 23% interest has become the norm… so what’s the point?

The difference in battery life between the two will be a matter of hours, not days. That said, I didn’t realise how deep the discounting on the Fenix is at the moment, At R6.5k for an F6 you can’t really go wrong here: https://www.takealot.com/garmin-fenix-6-outdoor-smartwatch-47mm-silver-with-black-band/PLID55543318?gclid=CjwKCAjwxo6IBhBKEiwAXSYBswJModrgB_JxWd1Fgx3ovc2-xKBKAoNIfoEe3K4efQU6mj5Ai1P83RoCrm8QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

The end user will be the one gaining the most when geoblocking falls away. Especially in smaller markets like ours. Unrestricted access to the global supply chain can never be a bad thing. The only ones who benefit are the ones playing gatekeeper. Look at the brands in currently under the C.H stable, over and above Shimano, they have: Continental Tires - Excellent products, exceptionally well represented worldwide, very popular, but near impossible to get hold of locally (a bit better represented on the road side of things, but I can’t remember when last I saw a conti on a MTB in SA) CatEye - Granted they have fallen off the bandwagon on the head unit side of things, still a super recognisable brand in cycling, and they make some awesome lights, but I’ve never seen them for sale locally. Cyclelab probably has some in stock, but can’t say I have noticed, and definately not in any other bike shops. Why not? We love night riding here. Okes spend big money on lights, and the CatEye rechargeable lights are really good value for money, well made units. Joes No-Flats - Pretty much the original tubeless solution. But until I went to check the coolheat website, I forgot they existed. The sealant market is pretty saturated, and there are some great local products too. But a brand like Joe’s should always be front of mind when you think sealant. I’m not sure who represents Stans in SA, but I do know they are doing a better job. White lightning - Okay, guess we can cut them some slack on this one, If the sealant scene is saturated, the lube side of things is overflowing, and white lightning does sealant as well. The fact that all those brands are so underrepresented in the South African market must raise a few questions? But by controlling the access to Shimano, they have the entire local bike industry by the short and curlies. If a bike shop wants to provide aftermarket service, or handle any warranty issues on bikes with Shimano components, they currently have no choice in where to go. This kind of cartel mindset has only ever been bad for any industry.

This is the answer you wanted. Unless you plan on doing a lot of other hardcore adventure stuff, like whitewater kayaking, rock climbing etc, or you plan to use it for the next 10years or more, where the sapphire glass and metal case matter, by a Forerunner. and be honest, it’s a consumer electronic, your not gonna want to be using it 10years from now, because it’s going to be old and outdated. The only real plus in the Fenix box is slightly better battery life, but in reality your not going to do any activities that will exceed the battery on the forerunner. Big plus for the forerunner, is it’s significantly lighter, and thinner, making it a lot more comfortable. The Fenix is very noticeable on your wrist in comparison to its plastic stablemate.

Thanks, since I don’t own an eBike, my only exposure is to what I have seen. At the specialised dealers they they check diagnostics and do battery analysis with every service. I assumed that was the norm. There also seem to be regular firmware upgrades, which is why the dealers connect to the bike on each service. Surely if flagged as stolen, the dealer wouldn’t need to correlate data, it should just pop up immediately with a Notifiaction, and lock the bike - in a perfect world and all. I guess it’s an extra cost issue and would affect (albeit hardly) battery life, but I’m surprised that especially the more expensive e-bikes don’t have a tracking device hardwired into them as well. as far as stolen phones - at least for iPhones, they are far less often stolen, and the ones that are get used for spares. The locking does make them unusable, but the spares value is obviously still high enough to make it lucrative.

I wasn’t aware CoolHeat were bringing any Shimano products into SA anymore???? my conspiracy theory at least is that actually they are a subsidiary of SRAM, and they pay for the local distributorship for Shimano solely to make sure it’s never available on the local market. Fear not. Things are changing. Shimano, although being the biggest player in bike components in the world, is also extremely traditional/old fashioned in terms of structure. In most larger markets, they have their own local headquarters and sales outlets, that as a rule only handle B2B sales. Although wholly owned subsidiaries, the individual regional companies are autonomous, and decisions around wholesale pricing etc is handled individually at regional level. Back in 2018, Shimano USA had a whine because a few major retailers, but specifically JensenUSA specifically was buying its stock from Shimano Europe, and Shimano Singapore, at much lower prices then they could get from Shimano USA. So instead of the Japanese giving USA a wrap on the knuckles and tell them to get their pricing in line with the rest of the word, they implemented Geolocking, and since then, Official retailers are only allowed to buy from their local Distributor, and aren’t allowed to sell outside of that distributors Market Zone. If they didn’t stop retailers from selling to external markets, big guys like Jensen would have just set up operations in EU, and ship from their to their US clients, or clients would turn to other major online retailers. Coolheats market share is way too small that they could ever have achieved this themselves, but they got lucky on this, and currently have exclusive rights to distribution in South Africa by pure luck. The changes in the market and consumer behaviour driven by Covid, as well as their experience with their other brands, like Pearl Izumi and some of the fishing stuff as well, means changes will be coming. Obviously they first need to get their supply back up to spec, which is a seperate issue all together, and then also fulfill existing sales via the various regional hubs, before any major change would be seen. But industry chatter is unanimous that the geoblocking will soon be done away with, and more and more Direct to Consumer sales will also become available. In the mean while, at least at consumer level - viva AremexGlobalShopper….

Spot on, it adjusts the resistance between the pedal and its axle. Specifically important for free riders doing tricks in the air and taking their feet of the pedals. You want the pedal to remain flat, so that when you put your foot back down it’s in the right place. To a lesser extent downhill/Trail/Enduro riders don’t want the pedal spinning around at 14 billion rpm if it happens to clip a branch or something while you have your foot out in a turn. But, if your riding a pedal like this, and aren’t wearing shin guards, you need to seriously re-asses your life's choices. ????

I think we are veering off topic here, and it’s my fault for bringing clothing into the discussion - if this doesn’t already exist, there should be a seperate thread specifically to deal with import duties etc. But I’m a bit confused how you come to this? VAT is always 15%. We do not have variable VAT in South Africa. In the above example, assuming the applicable duty is 27%, and you bought a jacket costing exactly R1000.00, the calculation would be: The duty would be: R1000*27%=R270.00 VAT would be: [(R1000.00+10%ATV)+R270]*15%= R205.50 - The 10%ATV value for calculating vat is only added for calculation purpose. You don’t pay it. So, Total cost would be R1000+Duty+Vat = R1000+270+205.50 = R1475.50 Due to the Added Tax Value, the effective VAT rate in this instance is therefore 16.2%, but this will always change, based on the cost price and whatever duty may be applicable. You need to work out the effective VAT based on the price including duties.

Getting a charger sorted is not exactly difficult. There are a lot of DIY options or ready made variable charging options available for LiPo batteries. a dodgy locksmith can probably also sort you out with a new barrel/key But even after all that effort, how do you sell a stolen e-bike? Unlike a regular bike that just has a static serial number, these bikes are linked to online systems/apps etc, all linked to the Serial Number. And you wouldn’t be able to have it serviced anywhere, because as soon as they link up to check the bikes info, all the owner detials will come up not?

I think this is a very liberal application of the term “Unethical”……

Yes, CraigT42 That list basically covers everything, except tires sold loose/not fitted, and also there are a handful of odd exceptions on things like saddles and grips manufactured from certain materials that get slapped with massive duties, but this very seldom happens. The other thing people tend to get caught out by is the country of origin. It has nothing to do with where you bought it from or where it ships from. Customs assessment is preferential and non preferential origins, and is normally the country of original manufacture, but in certain special cases this can be amended by the competent authority based on value having been added in a second country. But for bikes, generally, even if they are assembled in the EU, and shipped to you from the EU, the country of preferential origin remains Taiwan. So the 15% duty applies. you need to be very careful when mail ordering clothes. Most clothes are meant to be levied at 45%. But clothing actually manufactured in the EU is rated at 0 or 5%. SARS likes just seeing clothes and slapping it with the 45% rate, even if the customs invoice clearly states the origin is EU. This is especially true with brands high end brands. RAPHA, Endura, ASSOS etc. So make sure or that before you just pay the duty

Whole bikes from EU are duties at 3% currently - but for all practical purposes bikes made in the EU don’t exist All other bikes are dutied at 15% Canyon cannot sell you a whole bike as parts. They would get into serious trouble with revenue authorities if they did. They could essentially sell you a build kit, and that would be duty free (except for the saddle @ 45% and tyres I think 5%) then obviously vat on the total price. but then the bike must be shipped completely disassembled. No drivetrain component fitted not even the BB. Same for headset bearings, cables, steerer cannot be cut. It also has to be sold as a set of parts, and clearly invoiced as such, and billed as seperate items with each component listed individually. Absolutely no assembly of anything may be done before shipment.

Sorry to chip in here, but I have to correct both of you. As an logistics consultant and supply chain analyst, Working in the bike industry, I think I can provide some unique insight, while I having breakfast in Macau, and waiting for what will be a rather unpleasant 47 hour ordeal to get back to JHB…. But you can all thank me later when in about 3 weeks time you are again able to buy some Shimano goodies for your bikes from your supplier of choice. Canyons business model would never work in SA, but not for any of the above reasons. Duty on bikes in general, including Canyon is 15%, levied against the CIF (Cost/Insurance/Frieght) price of the bike. Essentially that’s the total purchase price, as delivered to a customs port in South Africa. But every single bike you buy in South Africa is subject to this duty. You just don’t realise it, because it’s already factored into the price on the sticker in the bike shop. The only other tax/add on is VAT, but again, that applies to every other bike sold in the country as well. You could argue that the shipping cost for mainstream brands is lower because they buy in bulk, but that is also not really true. Bikes are bulky, and expensive to ship. The slight saving they make by bulk shipping is completely wiped out by warehousing and distribution costs locally. So the price you pay for a canyon consists of: CIF + 15% Duty + 15 Vat The price of the bike you buy at the LBS consists of: CIF + 15% Duty + local wharehousing + distribution + dealer margin + 15% Vat (depending on the sales model, there might also be a local distributor/agents margin. But in most cases this is worked into the ex factory price. At least for Spez and Trek and Scott, who all have proper brand representation locally. The others handled by “middlemen” it’s a free for all, and local distributors totally screw the entire supply chain. No wonder Spez/Trek at least are so dominant in the market. Trek is getting there, having only recently gone this route) But essentially the Canyon shouldn’t be costing more because of shipping or duties. Those apply equally whether you buy the bike from cyclelab or you import it directly yourself. And granted the exchange rate is reasonable on the day you buy your canyon, then your total cost would have been comparable to local prices for the other brands. When I bought my spectral in 2018, it was very favourably priced, in fact it was a bargain compared to the similar options available locally at the time. Granted I took delivery of my bike in Germany and “smuggled” it back as check in baggage, so I skipped shipping and duties, but I had to pay German VAT at 19%, which I didn’t get back at the airport, because I had ridden the bike in the alps on that trip, so it was used by the time I left the EU, and my excess baggage fee to fly the bike on Air France was 150Eur or something. So all in very close the what I would have paid in VAT and Duty if I had shipped it to SA. The problem with Canyons business model in South Africa is the South African. They failed to understand South African consumer behaviour. A DTC distribution model will not work for luxury goods in South Africa, and even more especially bikes. Whether you guys on this site believe it or not, you are the minority of the cycling consumer in South Africa. Who follow cycling religiously and know about canyon because you watch world cups and grand tours etc. The typical consumer has probably never heard of red bull tv, and might maybe watch a bit of the TdF, but only because it gets a bit of coverage on the mainstream news, and he doesn’t want to sound an absolute fool when he meets up with the rest of the C group for the Saturday club ride. South African Consumers are also extremely image conscious, what they buy is more about impressions, with very little concern for value. So there’s just no way they going to buy a Canyon, that is essentially an unknown brand here, even if it offers much better commented etc at the same price as a known local brand. If you buy a S-works, you don’t need to explain your choice to the mates. They will all be wowed by the sticker alone. Same goes for a new pro-Caliber. Or a Spark 900 RC Team. Your mates know it’s the bees knees, and they have seen it on the floor in the shop, and know what the sticker price is. But a Canyon you would need to explain/justify, and that kinda defeats the point here. An upper middle class South African with with a decent credit score, is a sales managers wet dream. The smart marketing folk from the car industry cannot makes sense of our spending habits, same goes for consumer electronics and so on. So to imagine it would be different with cyclists was a oversight from Canyon. We are a relatively small market for Specialised for example, but we sell more s-works bikes as a percentage of all units sold than any other market. I rode SANI in 2017 with the German supply chain manager for Specialised. He was astounded at the number of epic Pro and S-works models, and also the fact that’s almost everyone taking part was on a carbon dual sus of relatively recent vintage. In Europe that simply wouldn’t be the case, at what is essentially a sportiv/social race. Europeans, although having superior spending power, are much more value conscious, and much less concerned with vanity. Without a retail presence with storefronts in major retail spaces, there is no way to build the brand awareness needed to become “cool” in SA. Canyons impressive trophy cabinet doesn’t matter to the target market in SA. Then there is the fact that South Africa is still not really a e-commerce nation. Covid has changed that in a big way, mainstream e-commerce has a long way to go still. I know 30somethings that still use travel agents to book their holiday flights because they are afraid to put their credit card details into a website. Last weekend at a friends place for a few beers, we decided to get a few pizzas. Next thing my mates ask if I wanna drive with him? Perplexed I ask why we don’t just use Uber eats. He says he has never used it, and doesn’t know how. This is after the lockdown of last year when for the longest time it was almost the only way to get take aways. So I say, no problem, I will order. No, he insists, he is happy to drive, and besides he likes chatting to the staff while he waits. On the way to pizza perfect, we chat, turns out he has also never used an Uber either. This is a 37 year old senior manager in a large marketing company, who also travels (locally) at least extensively. So I ask what he does if he needs a taxi, like at the airport or whatever? He uses those guys that Harrass you at the arrivals terminal. Says he trusts them more. At least he knows who his driver is. He is a cyclist, earns close to 2mil ZAR a year. And even though he isn’t the kind to buy a bike based on its “street cred” alone, he is definately not going to be buying R80k + bike, from a website, with zero personal interaction. He may be an extreme case but there’s a lot of people in the target market for top end bikes, who are just like him. We don’t shop online if we don’t have to. And then lastly, Canyons main market is the EU. As previously mentioned, Europeans are much much more value conscious than South Africans. Labour is also very expensive. So people tend to DIY a lot more wherever they can, especially with regards to hobbies. So cyclists will be a lot more willing to work on their own bikes. Have some tools, and would be more than happy to buy a bike that arrives in a box and they have to build it themselves. Here, a large amount of riders don’t even lube their own chains. Because a wash and lube costs R150.00, and a service costs R500 odd rand. In the EU, a standard service would cost 65-70 EUR. So buying a bike that’s arrives flat pack in a box when spending R80k plus, that just doesn’t appeal to a South African buyer. So when you consider all that, it’s actually easy to see why it may just not be worth it for Canyon to continue to service a very a marginal market in South Africa. But it’s not because there’s a problem with the model. The model just isn’t right for our market. The one thing that I do think is wrong with Canyons business in terms of servicing ROW locations, is that they are choosing to distribute from their German HQ. They claim that the raw frames are sent to from Asia, and then finished in the German factory, before assembly and testing, but I don’t buy that, if they were doing half of the value adding they claim to be doing in Germany, they would be allowed to ship the bikes with a German country of origin stamp, and they don’t. If they could claim Germany as origin, the bikes would be able to ship to most of the world duty free, or at worst with 5% duty. However, now they are shipping from their factory in Taiwan, into Germany, where a 15-20% duty is imposed, and obviously added to the total cost, and then when you order the bikes to South Africa, or the US, and now even the UK, they are again knocked with a 15% customs duty. If they kept all the assembly in a single plant in Asia, and shipped direct from there, they would immediately lower their ROW pricing by 15-20%, and that would make them extremely competitive. Sorry for the long post. Hope I haven’t bored you all to death.