ASTANA

We cycle on the N1. Worcester / De Doorns area. Where else. No problem, huge yellow lanes. And you look after yourself - keep way left. The thing is - traffic is mostly trucks and taxi's - doing the CT - JHB trip, with occasional cars obviously. Thing is- there are no other roads long enough to ride on. not by option. I would rather train on a quite back road somewhere than on the N1. Besides - not putting anyone in danger. Compared to the cattle walking on the n1 past De Doorns town - along the squatter camps. i know its not very helpful (building a better SA) to have such a mentality but just saying. Not saying do wrong things because one can get away with it... I'm not going out on the N1 in Cape town or doing the N1/N7 /N2 thing around Stellenbosch - the other options are enough. Same goes for people in GP - enough other roads

Are you really saying that? So an accountant can commit fraud because nobody is paying to watch him do his job? Is doping "entertainment" now? Because that is what you said!! ag man. NO. Its a sport, give 2nd chances.

That the point of the doping ban - everyone will not believe in him ever again also applying a longer minimum to discourage riders to use PED's, then the ones who do get caught will have to face the music but still has the change to comeback and proof them selves as being naturally good - but its unlikely that they will be able to comeback to top form after lets say 4 years.. Role model: One must admire the athlete for the athlete he is, not as a human being. People make mistakes and have to pay for it, but being a great athlete is priceless and no one can take that away from you. Pantani - he is still a legend no mater what. Tiger with this issues off the course - he is still a role model. Disappointed a lot of fans and people but still a role model, no matter what they say. Role model is not the fraudster - but the athlete and the image around the athlete. The person himself is just another person with the same issues as all of us.

That road is not that bad. I believe when its your time its your time. If you follow the rules. If not : dont expect to be safe. Afrikaans saying : "Moenie onder die hoender stelasie slaap en hoop dat die hoenders nie op jou k*k nie" If you keep safe and sh*t hits the fan - its not your fault. Ride on safe roads and be on the lookout. MTB or road or even driving your car - accidents do happen. I believe more people die driving their cars in the Western Cape than Cyclist training for the Argus. Its sad and unnecessary, but its actually a miracle that not more cyclist are killed. So watch your own back and keep safe.

I hear you. And I hear most of you guys on the "Give them a hard ban so everyone else is scared off" , thing is - there needs to be a option for forgiveness and 2nd change , its not like they killed someone - maybe killed someones dream, yes. Its the riders choice to then decide if he wants to take that 2nd chance after the ban - face all the difficulties of a comeback and face the music in papers and media. If not chicken out and leave the sport. You were a complete cheat anyway. Riders who failed and got into some bad things like doping and cheating who comes back after the initial ban to show character and to proof everyone wrong, are the one's I'm trying to protect and give a 2nd chance. Make the initial ban hard on the riders to make the choice easier to not dope - but give a chance to the one's who do fall into that trap due to pressure or what ever.

This topic will have different view points and not all people will agree - that's life. Its like the Lance vs the rest story - some have a opinion others disagree. To believe in second chances is good. We moved away from the death penalty because of that. I'm not saying let them off easily - just saying life is too much for a first time offender in sport. Sport is still sport - whether professional or not. Its suppose to be the love of the game and to kill someone by banning him for life for a mis step is just harsh. Like I said before - Its hard enough to make a comeback after 2 years, so if you increase the minimum sentence to lets say 4 years it surely will let people think twice?? You also have a "doping record" - unofficially in the public's eye and officially on the UCI records) so its lesson learned. If you cant learn from that then another ban for lets say 6 years is handed. + The guy/girl may now never be part of professional sport or cycling again. so if your 20 years old and gets a positive 2 times its 10 years out of the pro circuit - that is game over for you. If you somehow have the guts and mindset to make a comeback and caught again - Life ban from all sport Better still if countries made it a criminal offense to dope - but that will only result in riders immigrating - so not a long term solution. The life of a pro athlete (endurance sport) is +-40 years of age - there are some exceptions though. So 10 years is alot for 2 positives. Imagine your pro career start at age 16 (that only 24 years to be top pro - min - max age)

Most get caught A and B sample Positive and still denies ever taking drugs... "I thought the sirringe the team doc gave me were vitamins" Thats the basis of this - some admit and tell all. others don't bother. 2 kinds of dopers / cheaters / criminals. Ones who can rehabilitate ' date=' show remorse and confess, others that sit the time denying it and pan their next cheat. One has to cater for both - its only human to be fair [/quote'] And deny the good results to a rider who is clean but can't achieve them because he is beaten by a "remorseful" doper? If you are a doper you are a doper! So once a criminal always `n criminal ? Why do we have prisons then ? (Talking in general not SA only.) Why not just kill young criminals with the first offense, because rehab is a joke and a cover up for corrupt people ? We don't want these people in society so why give them the chance to proof us wrong ? If the same happened to Nelson Mandela then it was tickets for him as well.

Most get caught A and B sample Positive and still denies ever taking drugs... "I thought the sirringe the team doc gave me were vitamins" Thats the basis of this - some admit and tell all. others don't bother. 2 kinds of dopers / cheaters / criminals. Ones who can rehabilitate , show remorse and confess, others that sit the time denying it and pan their next cheat. One has to cater for both - its only human to be fair

A picture of his ass ?? No bigBen

I did. but.... good lawyer

did you miss the part where i said i give up. your argument, simply, is left wanting and is all arse-about-face. stop press? THE HUB SA SUSPENDS ASTANA The Hub SA has confirmed that top hubber, Astana,has been handed an 18-month suspension from hubbing by an Anti-Doofus Disciplinary Panel that convened online on 10 February 2010. Astana returned a positive test for unacceptably high levels of stupidity, following the scrutiny of a post taken from him on the same day. I rest my case with you Holly Roller your case was never enterained for consideration by the panel Sorry panel

Sensing some backtracking here, you still ultimately miss the point. He cheated to make money. YES. No mistakes, so why should he get off lightly? It goes against the whole concept of fair competition. YES. He cannot be trusted ever again Rehab / Serving his ban, no matter what he says, and should he start winning again through his own talent, how can he disprove its not through artificial assistance Dope testing. His goose is cooked, he has no credibility in the public eye True - what is why he should be allowed back to redeem himself, and proof everone wrong - he MADE a mistake and has learned from it, Now give him a chance to do that, let alone amongst his peers. If not then crucify him. Some people learn from their mistakes and most don't, but you got to give people a chance. Everything everyone ever did wrong was to gain something fro them self. Money is no exception - its the same thing - gaining something for yourself. Yes doping is stupid and ruins other people's chances. But doping is also just a step in the wrong direction. Some people are more prone to cheating than others - different circumstances and different reasons why some people think cheating is the only way forward.. Its fair to give people a change to rehabilitate. People who admits guilt and work with the agencies and anti doping should get of lighter. I believe its very hard to get back into racing and to gain the trust of everyone once you come back from a ban. Look at Floid Landis - he never made it back. Ivan Basso struggled for a long time to get back. Vino is still struggeling Jan stepped out of competition Ricco is confident but knows that people will now always judge him. Stefan Schumacher also bailed after his positive - knowing it would be near impossible to get back to top racing in time to still have a decent career. Just saying - let them decide if they want to get back after the ban. If so it will only be to redeem themselves and to proof that they are worthy cyclist. If not everyone will know your a cheat till you die. If caught 2nd time around there are not a lot of people who will stand by you. no one likes cheaters. \ \they did it to them selves and its fro them to life with the consequences

did you miss the part where i said i give up. your argument, simply, is left wanting and is all arse-about-face. stop press? THE HUB SA SUSPENDS ASTANA The Hub SA has confirmed that top hubber, Astana,has been handed an 18-month suspension from hubbing by an Anti-Doofus Disciplinary Panel that convened online on 10 February 2010. Astana returned a positive test for unacceptably high levels of stupidity, following the scrutiny of a post taken from him on the same day. I rest my case with you Holly Roller

Ive asked that question many many many many times before. forgot your a Ricco fan. With the age thing, let me help you. move you mouse over my profile to the left of the post, click on my name "Astana" then you'll enter my profile - see profile for details. No need to be rude Colonel.

logic? two years is standard. nolan got a let-off. F'k - put the sentence into context. I'm saying if Nolan gets X amount of time the non-cooperators should get more X + Y months what did you not understand ? ok?let?me?say?this?slowly. nolan and herman were given the same standard sentence for the same offence. nolan was given six months off that sentence for "co-operating. final sentences aren't the same. that's how it works. i mean' date=' you do follow cycling, don't you?[/quote'] Its you that needs to Read....the....previous......posts.....slow ....ly ... Again. I know Nolan's ban is the "reduced" sentence, and Ja i know 2 years is the minimum. We were discussing the fact that the 2 offenders needs to have different sentences either way. Someone said both should have 2 years - but thats not fair - one cooperated and the other didn't so its only fair to give to one who cooperated a lesser ban .... 18months compared to 2 years. So yeah its fair now 18months vs 2 years. But if the initial ban were 2 years for nolan without any reduction, surely fouche would have been given more We one the same page now. We are, but you are "gat oor kop"

logic? two years is standard. nolan got a let-off. F'k - put the sentence into context. I'm saying if Nolan gets X amount of time the non-cooperators should get more X + Y months what did you not understand ?