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Closing date for comments is the day after tomorrow! That is 4th May 2016. I have downloaded and read the document and will submit my comments in the next 24 hours. If you are going to comment, best download and read the document first. You can find it over here: https://cdn.bikehub.co.za/uploads/TMNP_Cycling_EMP_draft_for_comment_04April2016.pdf Take note of the instructions for submitting comments. I think they expect comments mainly from scientists and representative bodies but that does not mean cyclists cannot also have their say. Also it is probably best if they receive more positive comments from cyclists than negative ones from other Park users. If you are going to look at the document, you probably want to read from page 16, "Proposed Additional routes" to page 18 "Possible Future Routes". But we should all pause to take note on page 20 of "Code of Conduct" But if you have not got time for reading, jump straight to page 27 and drool over the maps!

Rules according to SANParks: Cycling on the tar road is an Activity. Driving is transport. So if you have a MTB Activity permit, you can get in for free on a bicyle. You can even put the bike on a bike rack and drive in for free.

I have a Hansom in my garage. When I saw this thread I though I should take some photos and post them - see below. I bought it 2nd hand for R350 in about 2002 when I decided to try out cycling. I rode a few Argus tours on it before upgrading. My son rode it for a while and did the Argus on it too. Although it is a rigid frame and currently wearing slick tyres, it is a "mountain bike" - the frame will accomadate > 2" wide tyres. It also has an eliptic chainring as discussed above. I have been wondering what to do with it. Maybe fit some cyclocross style tyres and turn it into a gravel grinder / commuter. It is very scratched, corroded and weighs about 15kg. So it is never going to be a competitive bike and probably not worth a big investment. If anybody can provide any information as to it's history, I would be very grateful.

It would be interesting if you do persue this in court. That might lead to some clarity as regards to TMNP's obligations with sign posting etc. I don't support the notion of "ride where you like if you can get away with it" but there has to be some balance. TMNP cannot just make there own assumptions as to how the legislation should be interpretted without first getting their ducks in a row. If there as a lack of signposting and contridicary advice given by uniformed rangers - you may have a case.

From: http://www.tablemountainbikers.co.za/cape-town/plum-pudding-single-track-cecilia-forest-single-track-proposals-green-light/ "Also, the single track that runs along the fence line (next to Rhodes Drive), from the car park to opposite Southern Cross Drive, will be opened to cyclists on a trial basis. It is the track that runs along, under the cork oaks. We are meeting with Parks management on May 21 to discuss the details. Until there is signage in the ground, please note that current rules apply. We will notify the community as soon as the single track is open. We are excited about this result and it gives us a bit more space to ride in." That was a month ago. I guess the signs are not up yet? But you might be able to spin a good story for the magistrate. Actually I would like to see unambiguous rules and uniform enforcement. This would allow community "buy in" which would be in everybody's interests. The situation with the green belts in Constantia is also unclear. I see more cyclists on more paths, but it is clear as mud as to if/what/where any of these are actually open for cycling. Now that kandui is getting a job as full time cycling administrator, maybe these things will be managed a bit better.

A conventional fork has a bridge between the two lowers so they have to move up and down together. There appears to be nothing stopping these forks from moving out of phase, one extending while the other is compressing, causing the wheel to rock from side to side. Can anybody who has ridden one comment, if you pull the wheel from side to side between the forks, how far will it move? Can the tyre touch the fork. I know the loads on a bicycle wheel are almost always directly up and down, but the above freedom movement might trigger off some unexpected handling side effects or even a wheel wobble, particularly as there is no visible damping.

Just a reminder. If you are wondering what you can do to further the cause of cycling in Tokai. Written comments on the new Draft Management Plan for Table Mountain National Park have to be submitted by Saturday 9 May. For details see this thread: https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/148925-2015-tmnp-park-planning-info-session/

Hi All I have been lurking here for a while but I only post stuff occasionally. But I am interested in Table Mountain National Park, Tokai in particular and specifically cycling there. So I attended the TokaiMTB AGM and I intend going to the TMNP feedback meeting regarding Tokai this week (see https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/148925-2015-tmnp-park-planning-info-session/). I am also planning on submitting some written feedback to SANParks. So I will be making a bit more noise here and it is fair to present myself as a bit more than an online nickname. Cycling is something I do with my wife. We both enjoy it, we always cycle together. We have completed 11 Cycle Tours and we regularly ride at Tokai. We are not fast and we are not brave, but we get around. On the mountain, we mainly stick to the jeep tracks, but occasionally venture onto single tracks. We normally do some road cycling (on mountain bikes) before the Argus each year. The closest we have got to the mountain since the fire is Boyes drive :-( We cycle regularly but we don't often have time to load the bike rack and drive to distant locations. I also get to maintain the family fleet. Between the two of us and the kids there are 7 bikes in the garage. None of them are very exotic, but most still work. (I should get rid of the ones that don't). Cycling is not my primary sport. I have been flying gliders for over 30 years. I have been involved with club committees for many years, I have participated in some competitions and been involved with organizing others. It is great fun and it still takes up much of my free time. My wife also has her own interests, we have a family and we both work. But we make time to go cycling twice a week.

I also care for riding, but I care more for our mountain.

Thanks Deon! I will comment further on your new thread when I have a little more time. But this is time for all mountain bikers to come to the party. Please register your interest on the TMNP web site and attend the public meetings. Now is the time to show our support for our mountain! For convenience the new thread is linked here: https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/148925-2015-tmnp-park-planning-info-session/

Hi "(insert name here..)". You clearly have an inside line into the anonymous operations of SANParks. Can you please help. I would love to offer my input on this public participation process. I knew it was due to happen but I only discovered the details when it was mentioned on this discussion topic a few days ago, after the meetings had happened and just before the closing date. Not sure how I missed it, but I suspect it was not advertised very widely. I did not see it mentioned on the TokaiMTB web page, or their Twitter or Facebook channels. I don't think a public participation process was mentioned on at the TokaiMTB AGM. I did not see it in the "Wild Card" newsletter that gets e-mailed out. Nothing in the local press etc. Any way I have now registered on this web page: http://www.sanparks.org.za/conservation/park_man/forms/reg_form.php But either the page is broken, or the person who's job it is to acknowledge/respond is not doing it. Maybe I should try register again? Then there is a list of meetings that were supposed to be held between 2nd and the 7th of March. Do you know if they actually took place? If they did, where can we get hold of the minutes? The web site still reads "Written comments are to be forwarded either via email or by mail to Andre Spies, PO Box 787, Pretoria, 0001, by 28 March 2015 for TMNP". If there is an extension to the closing date Ms Merle is not doing a very good job informing us. I am trying to keep an open mind on this but I get the feeling that cyclists and members of the public are not regarded as "interested and affected parties" in certain quarters.

I just registered at: http://www.sanparks....ms/reg_form.php Maybe I can be an "insider" too ;-)

Interesting. From http://www.sanparks.org/conservation/park_man/ "Stakeholders are further invited to attend public information sessions at one of the venues listed below and comment on aspects relating to these plans." A bunch of times/dates of meetings between 2nd and 7th March are listed. Did anybody hear of these dates being advertised? Were they ever brought to the attention of activity permit holders, or TokaiMTB? Did anybody go to any of these events? The dates coincide with the time of the fire, did the meetings actually happen? It almost feels like SANPARKS want to take over our mountain and do what they think is best for us with as little interaction with, or interference from, the residents of Cape Town as possible. After the price increase débâcle last year, I am loosing what little confidence I had left in SANPARKS.

Maybe if you are a keen mountain biker with top end equipment. But remember these same rates are payable by for children. They are also applicable if you want to cycle on the front of Table mountain (where there is now some enforcement), or even if you cycle the loop in the forest below the tar road (but I am not aware of any enforcement there yet). Paying R135 to cycle along with your two your kids on their 20" and 24" bikes around the loop in lower Tokai is over the top. Especially as you have to drive to the picnic site and pay first to stay legal. Just wait till they try and enforce this... The rate of increase is way beyond inflation. I can remember paying R15 for a day permit for Tokai, now it is 3 times that. Remember SANPARKS did not buy the mountain, nor do they pay Rates for that land. The mountain belongs to us, SA Citizens, SANPARKS look after the land for us. So comparing the costs to trails on private land is irrelevant. And the fees are payable only for "activities", like cycling. You can walk, hike or run anywhere on Table Mountain for free. None of the funds goes back to facilities for activities, like MTB trails. At some point we have to start lobbying for our rights. There are too many inconsistencies in the system if they want enforcement anywhere besides Tokai. First thing we need is a family option. Secondly if the increases this year are over inflation, them some protest is called for!

Perhaps I owe the group some explanation as to who is is asking the clever questions. So digressing from the thread topic: I cycle with my wife one or twice a week. We normally go from our home, to Tokai and as far up the mountain as time permits. We stick to the jeep tracks, but occasionally venture onto some single track. Being able to cycle together with my wife, out of our front gate, into a National Park and up a mountain, on a regular basis is awesome. You have to tick a lot of check boxes to get this right. But cycling is my 2nd sport. I am also a (non-commercial) pilot and I have been involved with sport aviation for over 30 years, as a competitor, (unpaid) flight instructor and volunteer administrator. The commitment, in terms of time and money, to get involved in sport aviation is an order of magnitude bigger than cycling. The legal/regulatory environment is a huge challenge. And if you make a technical mistake it might be fatal. There is small but hard core group of enthusiasts involved. Many years ago our club forefathers put together the legal and political frameworks required to administrator the sport. If it were not for this our efforts would have been grounded years ago. My clever questions with regards to cycling administration come from a background of my involvement with sport aviation. Ian

High Bobby. You need to be thanked and recognized for your contributions. I have never ridden at Jonkershoek, but from what I have heard, the trails there are top class. But I fear there is a chink in the armour (or perhaps a crack in the frame) of "TMM" and I don't think a name and a logo will fix it. Rather I think you need an Elected Committee, a bank account and financial statements. This in turn implies some kind of constitution and a membership database. You may also want to register a legal entity like a not-for-profit company. This would provide you with three things: - A mandate from the cyclists. This would provide a mechanism to accommodate other folks aspirations (maybe the coffee shop crowd would want to get involved). It would give you a platform to negotiate with Cape Pine and even Cape Nature. It would also give you the authority you will need if you have to make difficult decisions, like closing trails. - A platform for raising funds. If you are going to solicit donations, the folk you approach will be happier if there is some transparency with regards to how the funds are being applied. - Some legal isolation to protect your own assets, like your house and your pension fund, from the legal vultures in the event that things go pear shaped. TokaiMTB have taken the first steps down this path. But it is still early days for them and I suspect they still have a way to walk.

Lets get a grip of the fundamentals: - What the Coffee Shop is doing is "legal". That implies they have lease on their premises and permission to erect signage. - Who/what is "TMM"? Are they a registered business with a Memorandum of Incorporation and Directors etc. Or are they a club with a Constitution, Committee and Membership? - Does TMM have a contract with the land owners to maintain and build trails? If there is a contact, does it give TMM exclusive rights to do this, what is the period of the contract, and what are the consequences if TMM fails to perform? - If there is no contract, on what basis does TMM have a right to close trails? - There is no shortage of cash to maintain trails. Thus any fund raising effort would be futile. Clearly this is an issue between two cycle brands. The Coffee Shop appear to have legal signage. Does Specialized feel they have exclusivity on the rights to maintain and build trails on the site? Or why don't they just stand back and let somebody else do it? Let's say someone has a bad crash at Jonkershoek tomorrow. Then the unfortunate rider might claim that the crash was caused by the failure of TMM to maintain the trails, despite the fact that they have adequate funds available to do this, as has just been acknowledged on a public forum. Who gets sued? TMM, Specialized, Cape Pine, or the Coffee Shop? I only see losers here, not winners. Whoever gets sued, the looses will be guys like us who enjoy cycling. Perhaps there is just too much money going into cycling at the moment, and not enough common sense.

Maybe we need to get our bikes "micro-dotted". But first we would need a central, maintained database of "bike VIN numbers" to code in the micro-dots. Then we would need to equip bike shops etc with equipment and knowledge to check micro-dots if they come across a suspicious bike. This could seriously limit the value of stolen bikes and components and discourage armed attacks on cyclists. I wonder if the PPA would take this on?

Hi Hubbers Some feedback, I ordered my new bike today... I Started off with a decision on XC verses Trial style, I rated them in order from "aggressive to comfy" as follows: Epic, Anthem, Camber, Trance/Stump Jumper. There are obviously others that fit in between, but you have to stop somewhere. Then I had look at the Camber specs and noted that you do not get a Brain valve on the rear shock with this bike - only with the Epic and a some high end Stump Jumpers. If it works so well on the Epic, then it might be missed on the Camber. So I looked at the Giants. Both the Anthem and the Trance had good recommendations, in this thread and elsewhere. (I suppose it helps to have a brand that has good market penetration). So I went and rode an Anthem and a Trance. Just on the tar but around enough blocks to get an idea of the seating positions. I liked both. My impression was the Maestro suspension is quite bob resistant. But then I got the bike shop to fit a shorter bar stem on the Anthem to shorten the reach. (My current bike is setup with a short stem so I am used to this). Then it felt good ... The test bike was an X4 off the floor and it displayed a budget price on the tag. But I was thinking of an X1. When I tried to understand the spec and price difference between the two I realised the X3 was midway in between. It has the same frame and Fox "CTD" shock and fork as the X1, which is nice. This suspension has full lock out front and rear, which calms my concerns for tar riding. What the X3 misses out on are tubeless ready tyres - but I never got pinch flats on my old bike (maybe I pump the tires too hard). It has Shimano brakes instead of Avid Elixir 5 - but my wife's bike has Shimano brakes and they have never given her any problems. The X3 has a 10x3 drive train with SLX rear derailleur and Deore on the front instead of 10x2 with XT Deore on the back and SLX cranks and derailleur on the front. Once again the SLX rear derailleur on my wife's bike has been trouble free, but not as nice as my old bike's XT Deore. I am not sure sure about the 3 speed cranks and front derailleur. Obviously the upmarket gear is lighter but weight is not a priority with me. So <flame suite on> I ordered an Anthem X3. This came in right at the bottom of my budget range, so I won't have to have any qualms about spending some cash on fixing anything that annoys me. When the chain rings start looking worn, I can reconsider my options on the front. If I outgrow it, well great, it implies I get a lot of riding done in the process and I will know what I am looking for when I go shopping for an upgrade. In the meantime I wont look so conspicuous to all of the riders who pass me. So talking time is now finished. I must get the bike in my dirty paws on the bike and go and ride it to see what this is actually all about.

Hi All Thanks for all of the feedback! It looks like I must chose between anthem or epic style and trance or camber style. I actually had a look at a Camber and rode it down the road outside the bike shop. It felt a bit upright, wide and soft (it was not setup). I got the impression that it it could get a bit heavy riding on tar for any distance. I am trying hard not to end up buying a road bike as well. (Then I would have to buy a road bike for my wife too and there would be a discussion twice a week about which bikes to ride...) Does anybody get to do much tar riding on any of the above? Has anybody bought a bike in this class and decided they did not like it, if so why?

Hi Hubbers This is my first post here. I am looking to upgrade to a 29 dual suspension. I ride for fun and I ride quite regularly but I am on the grey side of 50 and not particularly fast. About half my distance is on tar, getting to Tokai and back, and riding the Argus once year. The rest on the mountain, jeep tracks and easier single track. I have hopes to cover more distance in the mountains, if I can find time while the body still works. I currently ride a Merida Matts hard tail with 80mm travel forks and V-brakes. It handles the tar fine, the uphills are OK but the decents are quite rough. But now I think it is time to upgrade. I have been looking around, dual suspension is a good idea for the not so young. 100mm travel would be adequate. I ride a large frame so a 29'er would suit me. I am not woried about saving a kg or two and an aluminium frame is durable. I am would like some suspension technology that saves energy on the climbs, gears that change cleanly and technology that does not need too much maintainance. Other than that I am looking for a reliable ride and a good comfortable setup. I don't have space for two bikes in the garage - this one has got to do it all. I am happy with my current 3x9 gears (I would probably be happy with 3x8). 3x10 seems to have more scope for issues, especially when the chain gets crossed from big to small sprockets. How much of a compromise are the ratios on 2x10? How much more maintenance does a 10 speed chain need? Does anybody still sell 3x9? I am happy to spend R20k to R30k. Question, what should I buy? The Specialized Epic looks realy good, but I fear that it is way beyond my abilities. It is built for speed and there may be compromises in comfort and maintainability that don't suit my needs. Besides its probably 25% more expensive than I actually need to spend and I am not sure if it is cool to ride slowly on such a quick bike. (Not that I would care, provided it actually suits my requirements). Giant Anthem's are well priced at the moment. I don't know how much maintenance the Maestro suspension will need in the future. How well does it work on the climbs, or do you still need lock-out settings on the shock? It does not have through axel attachments on the hubs - would I be missing out on something? The Scott Sparc goes with remote lock-out. It just looks a bit fiddly and there are some reports of shock reliability problems. But maybe it would work for me. Merida seems a bit behind with 29'ers, there are not so many around. Otherwise they look similar to the Scott. Or is there something out there that I have missed completely? Every time I start looking carefully around the local bike shops, there is sales pressure to close a deal on something thats on the floor. This makes me nervous and want to crawl out and ride my old bike for another season... Has anybody got comments or suggestions? Thanks