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Odinson

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Everything posted by Odinson

  1. So what's the game then, Patch? We can't know the mind of a non-human animal, thus their suffering does not deserve moral consideration. Neither can we know the mind of another person, thus their suffering does not deserve moral consideration. Empathy allows is to understand our actions from the victim's perspective.
  2. Nice straw-man red herring [figure that's more appropriate], but "I dont live my life based on whataboutalisms" Neither you nor I am a starving Somali child. Let's reframe this: Bad Guy goes and robs a liquor store. A struggle breaks out and the proprietor gets shot and killed. At Bad Guy's first court appearance he gets up and proclaims "Morality is subjective. It's my personal choice to rob and kill. It fits within my moral framework. Who are you to judge?" How do you respond? a) "It's your choice. Who am I to judge your actions?" b) "No. Personal choice does not extend to situations in which your actions cause suffering to others."
  3. As in this study, risk isn't comparative. It can be independently measured. Would you hold the same moral position if you were in the position of the non-human animals? Would you also say to the exploiter "It's your personal choice to exploit. Feel free". I don't think you would. It's not a personal choice when there is a victim involved. We reject these 'personal choice/subjective morality' moral positions when assessing human interactions, so why do we accept it when it comes to our relationship with non-human animals?
  4. What the evidence shows is that your risk for some of the leading killers are lower on a plant-based diet. I'll never claim that you can't be healthy as an omnivore. It's also a diet that will typically have the lowest environmental impact. And most importantly, we keep animals off our plate. So, again, my question, if you agree that you can be healthy as a vegan, why not go vegan?
  5. Not entirely, if you look at the study that they included in their analysis. It's seems a bit derp to consider a boiled potato and french fries in the same analysis, but that's what was done. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29987352
  6. Think this study is also relevant here in as far as it relates to a plant-based diet and the intersection with environmental and disease factors.
  7. I'm assuming that you and the rest of the family have had your blood screened? Micronutrient deficiency symptoms can be subtle. If you did and everything is hunky dory, great! On a plant-based diet you can also be perfectly healthy. It's that simple. You don't need to contribute to animal cruelty and the destruction of our planet to be healthy. If you have that option, why wouldn't you do it?
  8. I think you'd be surprised to what extent the average South African 'supplements' without even knowing it. Odds are that if you eat certain maize and wheat meals, you're supplementing with vitamin A, thiamine, riboflavin, niacin, pyridoxine, folic acid, iron and zinc. This fortification is required by law. Then look at processed foods such as breakfast cereals and quick prep foods such as Futurelife. All fortified. Then take it one step further - how many of the animals that you eat haven't been supplemented with feed licks and blocks which are used to fortify, among other purposes, their diet. All this is often done with very good reason. Micronutrient deficiency is a big problem in SA and most of the world actually. [Edit: also, just because they're in your food, doesn't mean your body is absorbing the micronutrients. Many people have absorption issues due to disease, gastrointestinal surgery, gut issues, genetics, etc. In such cases eating fortified foods and additional supplementation is very helpful]
  9. I'd like to understand where IjsMan is coming from before offering my perspective. Surely that's reasonable, no? I'm not going to make assumptions as to what his intentions are, so once I know that, I'll be more than happy to discuss the 'vegetarian loop'.
  10. Smart folks in white lab coats make B12 by fermenting certain microorganisms.
  11. https://g.page/neatburger?share
  12. Almost forgot. Some pics from Neat Burger in London. Crazy good junk/fast food! Don't ask my why that 2nd pic is rotated. Something up with the uploader.
  13. My question would be: what is in eggs and cheese that you need, which can't be found in plant foods? I'm assuming your framing your question from a performance-nutrition perspective.
  14. A rose by any other name...
  15. Not surprising. It was very hyped at the time of the IPO.
  16. I rotate milks a lot. So, oftentimes there’s BIO (EU organic) that’s nice ‘n cheap that I’ll get. Problem is that Bio stuff ain’t fortified. Drinking the pill makes sure I’m consistent in it.
  17. And a huge chunk of omnivores will die without their cholesterol meds, stents, blood pressure pills, etc insulin, etc. etc. Fortunately a lot of the comparative studies are done outside of the US, so the SAD is not a reference point. A properly planned whole food plant based diet compared to a ‘healthy’ omnivorous diet still results in lower diabetes, CVD, and cancer risk for the vegans. This misconception that the only omnivores that get affected by lifestyle diseases are those following a SAD is not based in fact. I’d rather pop a B12 and know that I’m living a healthy lifestyle and am not contributing to animal suffering with each meal. Is a B12 supplement such a massive concession to make in the greater scheme of things?
  18. That is still incorrect. There is no such thing as a perfect diet, but a whole foods plant-based diet affords more protection against most of the leading killers op people than traditional omnivorous diets. Claiming that the “diet is lacking basic nutritional requirements” because of B12 supplementation is simply being intellectually dishonest.
  19. And it's been explained before that B12 supplementation is the result of deal we've brokered with modern sanitation and food preparation. It's that simple, but I'm quite sure you know that. You're just trying to get some jabs in (considering your more recent posts here).
  20. Boet, you’re unfortunately patently wrong in your assertion. If you know more than various nutritional organisations, then feel free to elaborate how you’ve arrived at your conclusions. I’m interested in hearing it.
  21. So the world’s vegan population supports a multi-billion dollar supplement industry? I don’t think so.
  22. Some good discussions in here: https://youtu.be/nqaCOPOM_18
  23. That's from the folks over at Corridor Digital. They're a small time VFX company, specializing in YouTube productions.
  24. It’s important to keep in mind that veganism isn’t about vegans. It’s about the animals that suffer due to our decision to exploit them. That’s why vegans speak on their behalf. Can we honestly say that exploitation is a ‘personal choice’ and shouldn’t be questioned. We don’t apply that logic to those who exploit women, children, etc. so why do we apply it when it comes to animals?
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