patches Posted September 1, 2011 Share this little bit of silliness has piqued my interest into the evolution of the two bikes: the SC and intense M-series. The M9 clearly is an evolution of the M-series starting with the M1 AFAIK. edit: not starting with the M1. Looks like a 4-bar horst link almost exactly like on my Xtension. Anyone know if Intense switched to the VPP design of SC's at some point, or was that always the case? What were the previous versions/models of the v10? Not sure, but I think the first V10 using VPP was the 2001 model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capricorn Posted September 1, 2011 Share aah thanks patches. that would mean Intense switched with the M6, unless there was an intermediate M1 with the VPP design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelhicks Posted September 1, 2011 Share OK I'll answer. It was Greg Minnaar on a Haro. Which was actually an Intense M1. Yip ... there were a number of manufacturers who used to buy Intense M1's and just rebrand them ... best bike back in the day! Palmer nearly one world in Are in Sweden on one in 1999 ... he was on it till he washed out on the tar 10m from the finish and ate it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelhicks Posted September 1, 2011 Share aah thanks patches. that would mean Intense switched with the M6, unless there was an intermediate M1 with the VPP design. The Intense M3 was the first VPP DH bike - the M1 was a 4 bar link ... Santa Cruz only changed to their current design (like Neils) in 2006! Edited September 1, 2011 by nigelhicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Omega Man Posted September 1, 2011 Share aah thanks patches. that would mean Intense switched with the M6, unless there was an intermediate M1 with the VPP design.The Horst link was Invented by a chap called Horst Leitner who works or worked in the MX industry. I think he was employed by Turner at the time. used by Intense on the M1. This was however patented by specialized and called fsr. Various companies use the 4 bar linkage and pay specialized for the use of the patent The M3 onwards was vpp. The VPP patent is owned by Santa Cruz. The patent was originally owned by outland but was bought and perfected by SC. My mate Deon still has a VPP outland and there's so much play in the rear end it feels like it's got 2 wheel steering. Interestingly Horst Leitner is a legendary figure in the US Motocross scene and was an early pioneer of 4 stroke mx bikes. He used to be involved with a company called ATK. ATK used to make 4 stroke MX bikes in the 80's WAAAAAY before the rest of the world switched on to them. Edited September 1, 2011 by Omega Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelhicks Posted September 1, 2011 Share The Horst link was Invented by a chap called Horst Leitner who works or worked in the MX industry. I think he was employed by Turner at the time. used by Intense on the M1. This was however patented by specialized and called fsr. Various companies use the 4 bar linkage and pay specialized for the use of the patent The M3 onwards was vpp. The VPP patent is owned by Santa Cruz. The patent was originally owned by outland but was bought and perfected by SC. My mate Deon still has a VPP outland and there's so much play in the rear end it feels like it's got 2 wheel steering. Did you wikipedia it too ... hhahaha was also just reading the differences. Interesting that the DW link and Treks ABP is identical (and Weagel got his patents in before Trek) ... and that they says that the I-drive is actually a complex 4-bar linkage. ... HMMM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Omega Man Posted September 1, 2011 Share Did you wikipedia it too ... hhahaha was also just reading the differences. Haha. I did a bit to make 100% sure of my facts. All this talk of suspension design has got me thinking about getting me an M9. Edited September 1, 2011 by Omega Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banna Posted September 1, 2011 Share Did you wikipedia it too ... hhahaha was also just reading the differences. Interesting that the DW link and Treks ABP is identical (and Weagel got his patents in before Trek) ... and that they says that the I-drive is actually a complex 4-bar linkage. ... HMMM So which suspension set up is the most effective for DH? Or is there no agreement in the mtbike world on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Omega Man Posted September 1, 2011 Share Interesting that the DW link and Treks ABP is identical You mean split pivot? DW is similar to the Giant Maestro. Or let me put it this way. Maestro is a blatant rip off of DW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Omega Man Posted September 1, 2011 Share So which suspension set up is the most effective for DH? Or is there no agreement in the mtbike world on that? That's a very interesting question. In my humble opinion it's the rider that makes all of the difference. Sam Hill won junior worlds on a VPP M3. He won Worlds on a DW Iron Horse Sunday. He also won worlds on a FSR Specialized. Aaron Gwin absolutely dominated the WC series this year on an ABP bike. Last year Minnaar and Gee Atherton dominated on a VPP and linkage single pivot respectively. It's the rider. The bike is just a tool. Edited September 1, 2011 by Omega Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelhicks Posted September 1, 2011 Share You mean split pivot? DW is similar to the Giant Maestro. Or let me put it this way. Maestro is a blatant rip off of DW.Ya sorry the split pivot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelhicks Posted September 1, 2011 Share So which suspension set up is the most effective for DH? Or is there no agreement in the mtbike world on that?I agree with OM completely on this one - its not the bike - its the rider! Greg won the world cup overall on an Orange .... single pivotthen Won the World Champs on a Intense (Haro) .... Horst (4 bar) linkagethen won the world cup overall on a Honda .... single pivotthen won the overall on a Santa Cruz .... VPP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capricorn Posted September 1, 2011 Share ah soz. i meant M3! thanks for that NiHi and agree with Oh Mega and NiHi: it's down to the rider. Those guys could win with a tricycle if they had to, and if everyone else was rocking tricycles too of course Edited September 1, 2011 by Capricorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted September 1, 2011 Share OK, short of squinting, I cannot see the rear linkages, is that still a four bar setup? Google has also not clearly shown the linkages. If it is still 4 bar, how does the linkage differ from SC? M9 VPP with 4 bar linkage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Omega Man Posted September 1, 2011 Share OK, short of squinting, I cannot see the rear linkages, is that still a four bar setup? Google has also not clearly shown the linkages. If it is still 4 bar, how does the linkage differ from SC? M9 VPP with 4 bar linkage? No. the V10 and M9 are both VPP bikes. the whole rear triangle moves as one piece. No link on the bottom chainstay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted September 1, 2011 Share No. the V10 and M9 are both VPP bikes. the whole rear triangle moves as one piece. No link on the bottom chainstay. Ah, then it's the bolt on dropout that looks like pivots.. got it. CRAP, that search I went on gave an indication of frame only price.. $2999 ?? Edited September 1, 2011 by Pain or Shine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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