Windbreaker Posted December 3, 2007 Share Slowpoke' date=' I have sat here and watched this thread, I have seen prominent cyclists and officials come and go all afternoon. Surely I wasn't the only person who saw this thread? What does it tell me? They are all too afraid too add their voices, whether for or against... Hey, I know that arguing this case is not going to make me popular... But it's a fate I'll gladly suffer rather than lie to you and say, "Yes, I'm all for riding safe, I even obey the rules of the road when I race..." That sort of hypocrisy doesn't wash with me. Safety starts with me... And here I am saying that I agree 100% that crossing the white line isn't acceptable whether racing or training. So, next time I am racing in the bunch and the bunch crosses the white line I will go with that bunch. If the officials choose to disqualify me for that then I have to respect that decision.[/quote']Pantani, maybe I've missed your point but here goes ...You are happy to be kept in line by authority,seem to have the backbone to stand up for those that are also breaking the rules,but don't have the balls to do the right thing either for yourself or as an example to others? Sorry boet but you just lost any admiration I gained for you over the past few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willehond Posted December 3, 2007 Share OK, now that Pantani has spewed his opinion, lets get back to the core of the issue. Like all folklore, there is some truth in "racers will always use the whole road", but it is not the whole truth. If you look at the photos of the leaders of each category (Nick , Jaco in Elites, the Jennies and Anriette in the ladies and the lead VA group), you will notice that they are keeping left of the line. Do they need to get all holy on us when they (like Pantani says: top pro's) keep left?? No obviously not. So if they keep left, why do the others feel the need to cross the line? Well, because one guy feels that all he needs is to just cross the line to make up those extra few metres that he cannot make up through power/ability. So crossing the line is an aknowledgement of weakness. Following a guy who did it is just as bad. The thing is; the guys who follow and have to cheat by crossing the lines are usually the ones with the biggest mouths. You know them, the 'almost' guys.... Have alook at the photos on this thread and judge for yourself:https://www.bikehub.co.za/forum_posts.asp?TID=19510&PN=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantani Posted December 3, 2007 Share We all know that there are days when racing that you don't need to cross the white line, and there are days when you suddenly realise that you're about to ride off in the gravel on the wrong side of the road... So to use this photographic evidence only serves to show that they were abiding by the rules on Sunday..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfreekduSoet Posted December 3, 2007 Share Skye,Well done for posting the pics!!! Support you 100.1% Sick of the pc where we cannot show the criminals. Pantani, I think you are missing the point a bit. The idea is not to say that the riders should stop riding on the right out of their own 'sanity' or maturity. They (imho) are total fools and good luck to them if their mental state is so dominated by racing that they are willing to risk their family and individual lifes for it. I then consider it a cleaning of the pool if they get knocked... I would rather say let us put a system in place of shaming, fining and banning these guys/girls from racing. It might not give them an understanding of why we control it, but hopefully less people will do it and therefore a better image of cycling in general will be created. Can you imagine what the drivers who were affected now think of cyclists?? I don't know if you trying to stir or just having a k@k day but hope that you will review your comments. ps: Sorry for your loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boela Posted December 3, 2007 Share In all fairness' date=' Skye, this would be the wrong time to single out clubs or individuals. I am afraid 80% of the elite bunch were at fault, dangerously so, on Helshoogte. [/quote']As much as this sort of riding can't be condoned I think this is hardly the time to name and shame these riders... it's not as if they were out on their Sunday training ride and caught "off sides"...It's OK, flame all you want but anybody who goes to a race to RACE will find it difficult to "throw stones" at this behaviour... This post just reflects the mentallity of some so called racers. Just because a few guys break the law you must also do so. Chat to an official [race ref] or two and they will tell you that a bicycle seat is a switch that turn any licensed cyclist in an absolute moron with absolutely no regard of anybody's safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willehond Posted December 3, 2007 Share Strangely enough Sunday was the only day during the past league season that I know of that the Sub-Vets went over the white line. During races like the West Coast Express the guys were guttering ON THE WHITE LINE. Yes folks, you heard right, they did it and raced fairly without the need to cheat. Believe me it CAN BE DONE even when you are seriously getting guttered. So why did some guys feel the need to cross the line? Maybe they just come out for the 'BIG' races and aren't used to the new way of racing> Maybe not because lots of them are regular league racers (and quite a few Hubbers!), but know one thing: you KNOW when you are over that line. You don't suddenly get this flash of enligtenment. Anyone who says that is lying to themselves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantani Posted December 3, 2007 Share but don't have the balls to do the right thing either for yourself or as an example to others? Hardly, and I have said it and keep saying it... We all know it's wrong, but in a race situation there are many of us who will knowingly and willingly take that risk and cross that line... I don't for a second advocate anything I do to anybody when I race, but I choose to cross the line when racing, and I can choose not too. It's a conscious decision I make, and it is made without thought to being an example, or bad one at that, too others... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagar Posted December 3, 2007 Share happened a year ago same place different race Wednesday, December 06, 2006http://www.pedalpower.co.za/images/spacer.gifRoad Ride News :: Elite results withheld for Tour d'Winelands The 112km Pick ?n Pay Brackenfell Hypermarket Tour d?Winelands took place on Sunday 3 December and despite 70km/h winds and driving rain, over 90% of cyclists participating completing the race. The Cape Town Cycle Tour Trust and Brackenfell Lions Club joined forces to manage the race which has been held for 17 years in early December and this year is the final seeding event on the calendar for the 2007 Cape Argus Pick ?n Pay Cycle Tour. The Tour provides a testing 112km route through the picturesque scenery of the Cape winelands. The men?s race was won by Chris Botha of Richard Kane in a time of 2:53:18 with second and third going to David Garrett of Powerbar Oakley in a time of 2:53:18 and William Robinson of Abvest UCT in a time 2:53:20, respectively. Uwe Schmidt/Robbie Rodrigues was the first tandem across the finish line in 2:53:44. The women?s race was won by Cape Argus Pick ?n Pay Cycle Tour winner Anri?tte Schoeman of Proline in a time of 3:23:37, followed by Cathy Carstens of Hottentots Holland CC in a time of 3:23:37 and Jane Seggie of Hottentots Holland CC in a time of 3:23:38. Speaking on behalf of the organising team, David Bellairs of the Cycle Tour Trust said, ?The race went very well and despite the bad weather, 2331cyclists started the race and 2124 completed it. However, the race was marred by serious traffic transgressions by the Elite racing group. ?As a consequence, the Tour D? Winelands has, with immediate effect, withdrawn the results of the Elite men?s racing group from this past weekend?s event,? he said. ?This has been at the request of PPA and the Cycle Tour Trust, following serious infringements of the traffic regulations. The results will be withdrawn until such time as the investigations into the transgressions have been completed.? ?The Pedal Power Association and Cape Town Cycle Tour Trust cannot condone the flagrant disregard of the traffic regulations and safety that the elite cyclists displayed at Sunday?s Tour D? Winelands. Despite being warned that they were disobeying the traffic regulations by cycling on a number of occasions in the yellow line of the right hand lane and endangering themselves and other road users, they continued this practice on a few occasions up until the finish line.? Photographs of this type of riding is evidenced on several email and web forums, including https://www.bikehub.co.za/forum_posts.asp?TID=8617. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boela Posted December 3, 2007 Share However' date=' I don't budge on my position regarding racing. I don't see a single elite rider, top Vet, top lady stepping up to the plate and publicly denouncing the practice of using all of the road when racing, regardless of road closure status. It's the unwritten rule of racing at that level... No, it's not necessarily win at all costs but it's damn close. People can sit at home and choose the moral high ground but until you ride at the front of a race and are consumed by an insatiable competitive spirit... No, I don't think you'll understand the psyche of a racer! Hey, I don't even win races but I have a choice to make when that race crosses the white line... Stay or go... So, as a licensed rider I am going to push the envelope until somebody disqualifies me...Quite frankly I think the principle is the same with Pro cyclists and PED's, we all know it's going to kill them eventually, but yet they continue to 'sail close to the wind' until somebody disqualifies them...[/quote'] If what you are saying is true there is no honor amongst elite cyclists. If they do no abide by the rules lets race "Rollerball" style and see how many riders on opposing teams get run over by an 18 wheeler. Burn the rule book and dope like hell. Lets rename the sport to "deathwish". I think everybody appearing in the evidence, race officials and organisers should be made an example of. A fat fine and suspension. When suspension is served rider and everyone else must proof they know the rules. If you want get killed find another way of doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windbreaker Posted December 3, 2007 Share ... and the point is that if you cannot change the way you ride you are contributing to the overall problem. Which is not only the risk that people are taking because it is an "unwritten rule" (bullsh*t) but it DOES contribute to the sense that cyclists are inconsiderate sh*ts on the road. It's a little bit like the bigger picture in RSA. We all scream about the level of crime but very few of us will start with the little things that we can change. Anyway, that's me done preaching for the month of December :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tour Posted December 3, 2007 Share Lots of people in this country do bad things and get away with it. DOes that make it right?? No, of course not. You have to make up your own mind if crossing the white line ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
controlc Posted December 3, 2007 Share Slowpoke' date=' I have sat here and watched this thread, I have seen prominent cyclists and officials come and go all afternoon. Surely I wasn't the only person who saw this thread? What does it tell me? They are all too afraid too add their voices, whether for or against... [/quote'] Or perhaps they thought it was a badly programmed bot injecting s#it into this thread, and thus wisely ignored it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantani Posted December 3, 2007 Share Yeah... please read Hagar's article! You can crucify me publicly here on The Hub but I think the point is made... You want to clean this up, then go to the top, the front of the race. I will try my best to adhere to the rules of the road, but I also am not ashamed to tell you I have aspirations too and will race, and many of you will add "to the death". I am not phased that my position is in direct opposition to popular opinion, but I will be outspoken about it, rather than hide behind a veil of muted, false homage to road safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windbreaker Posted December 3, 2007 Share I am not phased that my position is in direct opposition to popular opinion' date=' but I will be outspoken about it, rather than hide behind a veil of muted, false homage to road safety.[/quote']Or you just enjoy being otherwise and think it's cute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantani Posted December 3, 2007 Share I am not phased that my position is in direct opposition to popular opinion' date=' but I will be outspoken about it, rather than hide behind a veil of muted, false homage to road safety.[/quote']Or you just enjoy being otherwise and think it's cute. Nope... hardly, I think what got me fired up was a bunch of blokes riding up a mountain in a race I wasn't even riding in being flamed for crossing the white line.... Now, I know it's wrong, but I can relate to where they coming from! That, ladies and gentlemen, is the crux of this whole saga! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boela Posted December 3, 2007 Share Maybe you must get confronted by an very peed of individual driving a Bmw. It is one fight you are going to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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