New bikes at VA indoor cycling

[Brightspark]

Sandton Gym recieved the new bikes in October. 75% of the spinners thought there was nothing wrong with the bikes - these are the guys that do not put much effort into their spinning, they just want a cardio workout, which they could get in the Cardio sectio of the gym , where these bikes actually belong.

The other 25% staged a walkout to find other gyms. A couple of members sent emails to the club manager as well as to National. here was there their reply

"Response from my National:

I can assure you that we have done extensive research on this bike, we do not take product decisions lightly and all products go through comprehensive research and piloting. The Tomahawk bike was no exception and we were 100% comfortable to place this bike in our facilities to the benefit of our member base. It is certainly not a cheaper option and is backed by one of the biggest manufacturers worldwide in Johnson healthtech/Matrix.

A couple of points to note... The belt driven option is not inferior to the chain option, the belt is made of Kevlar and in this composition and structure does not stretch, we have this product in a mass of clubs at the moment, andincidently,matrix utilise this belt system with all of their strength machines as well with no slipping or breakage to date. The only comments have been the difference in "feel" as you alluded to from a rougher chain mechanism to a smoother belt option. Many of our older upright bikes across our estate are still chain driven, we have only introduced a belt driven system in the last 3 years, please note that the composition of this upright stationery cycle belt vs the tomahawk bike is different.

Ultimately we are working to provide a safe, effective, innovative and welcoming environment for our member base, and do this through top products and offerings."

This was not good enough 2 members posted on Hello Peter

 

"1. The new spinning bikes are awful? Virgin Active has brought in a new brand of bike (technogym was used for years) without it appears any consultation, testing and perhaps having instructors test them out. They have absolutely no feel similar to a road or mountain bike (warranted it is a spinning bike with a weighted wheel), and in my view are the type of bike you would want on your normal training floor for a normal cardio workout as opposed to a spinning and interval training session.

Please look into this further and listen to what your members & instructors are saying. The attitude that has been received by some of the floor staff, that us the clients (that pay their salaries), must just get used to the new bikes since it is not going to change is unacceptable."

 

 

"2. Sandton gets a rollout of new spinning bikes , this is fantastic and what we have been waiting for. Joy quickly turns to shock when the bikes start causing injuries. The average spinner would not know the difference between one spinning bike and the next , but about 25% of a class would. , they just do not have the reaction of a decent spinning bike. Well when members and some spinning instructors started complaining, the issue got passed around between regional to head office and back again, nobody will admit that the bike choice was not good for effective spinning technique. Instructors started cancelling their classes at Sandton , which was very inconvenient as they were some of the best that Virgin Active had to offer. Dedicated spinners now travel to other gyms sometimes out of the way to get a spin on a decent bike , but not always a decent instructor. Did anyone consult the spinning instructors before these bikes where purchased., I think not ! these bikes have the feel of a bike that should sit in cardio section of the gym, not the spinning studio. "

 

 

Well to cut a long story short - by perservering Sandton is getting new spinning bikes - whether they are on par with the original Star Trac bikes remains to seen , but at this point anything is better than those belt driven Tomohawk bikes.

[bradwentzel]

See my mail to the VA Sunninghill manager and his reply.

 

Perhaps if we all brand together we can get this problem sorted.

 

Hi Craig

 

I appreciate your timeous response.

 

My issues are as such...

 

The first and probably biggest, is that they simply are too small. I'm 6'3" and when setting up the bike, there is an inherent flaw in the design. When I get out the saddle, my knees are constantly bashing the handle bars. This is because the new bikes are designed in such a way that when lifting the bars, they are angled toward the rider (as opposed to the old bikes that were angled away) thereby decreasing the space between the rider and the bars. This makes it nearly impossible to ride out the saddle.

 

The second is the ability of the bikes to operate when the user is out the saddle. They cannot sustain the rider's weight sufficiently and give the "falling away" feeling. This takes away half of the class structure if you cannot climb successfully.

 

I do understand the belt versus chain drive for maintenance purposes, but the apparent simulation of cycling is greatly ruined by this new machine.

 

As a regular to the morning spin class, one can see the sheer drop in regulars who attend those classes (not taking into account the 94.7 riders) and that can only be attributed to the machines. More and more regulars are looking to other gyms who still stock the older style machines eg Lonehill etc as alternate options. I had a discussion with a chap just this morning who is going to try that approach from tomorrow.

 

Like I said earlier, I understand that this is not your doing, but hopefully if enough of us raise out concerns, we will be able to rectify th situation.

 

Thanks again.

 

Cheers

Brad

Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

________________________________________

From: craig.taylor@virginactive.co.za

Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 10:12:08 +0200

To: <bradley.wentzel@gmail.com>

Cc: <WebAdmin@virginactive.co.za>

Subject: Re: Virgin Active - Contact Club Manager

 

Hi Brad,

 

Thanks for your email.

 

I understand your frustration around the bikes and have had this discussion with a number of members already. They are definitely a topic of discussion at the moment.

 

 

The bikes are without a doubt different. If I may, what is your concern with the new bike and maybe I could share some technical info?

 

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

 

Kind Regards,

 

Craig Taylor

Club General Manager

Virgin Active South Africa / Sunninghill

011-807-5517 (tel)

086-581-0481 (fax)

craig.taylor@virginactive.co.za

www.virginactive.co.za

 

"Live Happily Ever Active"

 

-----bradley.wentzel@gmail.com wrote: -----

To: craig.taylor@virginactive.co.za

From: bradley.wentzel@gmail.com

Date: 11/29/2011 09:05AM

cc: WebAdmin@virginactive.co.za

Subject: Virgin Active - Contact Club Manager

Virgin Active - Contact your club manager

Ticket Number 225837

Club Sunninghill

Club Manager Craig Taylor

Club Telephone (011) 807 5517

Club Fax (011) 807 6617

Name Bradley Wentzel

Contact no 0722406178

Email address bradley.wentzel@gmail.com

 

Message Hi Craig

 

First off, I'm not assigning blame to yourself as this is clearly a head office decision and roll out, but those new spin bikes in your studios have to go.

 

As an avid cyclist, I use the VA spin studio as a method of safely training and intended to use the studio to perform 50% of my Cape Epic training for 2012.

 

With the machinery in the studios at the moment, that task is simply made ten times more difficult.

 

The clear fact that your best instructor, Garry Young, who had a "sold out" class on Wednesday morning, is now refusing to instruct and the numbers for his (and all classes) are dwindling.

 

I urge you to voice the problems that are being experienced by your patrons with these machines and look to alternate options.

Else several of us may be forced to look at other gym establishments to get a proper work out.

 

Thanks

Brad

Created November 29, 2011, 8:31 am

[dracs]

Really? Hope Sunninghill follows suit....

edit - that was in reply to brightspark... I will also send a mail to the sunninghill manager....

Edited November 29, 2011 by dracs

[Brightspark]

Just been to the 17.30 spinning class and the bikes that David the club manager had ordered were installed in the class.

What a pleasure to spin on decent spinning bikes again.

Well done to David for listening to his members.

[Nickzta]

I instruct at Sunninghill VA, who have recently changed to this new bike, in my opinion they are terrible. The aerobic coordinator suggested that some members have complianed but most like it, not sure when the survey was done? I have heard about a whole class walking out at Sandton because of the bikes, (not confirmed).

These classes at Sunninghill are very popular, I do not think the members will stay though based on the feedback I have been getting.

 

I've enjoyed spinning at Sunninghill for about 3 years. Actually joined the gym for their spinning classes. (Your class on the old bikes was outstanding. Love your work.)

 

Sad to say it, but I will never sit on one of the new bikes again. Sorry, I just wont spinn at Sunninghill ever again.

[cyberaver]

Dear fellow Hubbers

 

I received this disheartening response today, officially killing off any use or my Virgin Active membership

 

This was from the supposed speak with the MD mail address, where he never seems to respond to anything

 

------------------------------

 

Hi Dean,

 

We did have a few members that were unhappy with the new bikes, but have found that quite a few of these members are now happy with the new bikes, it just took some getting used to.

 

Virgin Active Sandton did get new bikes because they are in very close proximity to Morningside Virgin Active and we have a lot of Premier members that alternate between these two clubs. We did not want their experience to differ within two clubs that is so close together.

 

We will not be changing the bikes in any of our other clubs as we truly feel these are good quality bikes.

 

Kind regards,

Chanelle

 

--------------------------------

 

So two things,

 

1) If you have money and a decision may hurt that potential group of people with Money, they will reverse the decision and right the wrong

 

2) If you dont have money - screw you hick! that means the rest of us

[Thor Buttox]

Initially I loathed the new bikes but actually really enjoy them now. My secret was to put the seat down and back like a road bike (to the point of having the seat clamp more than half out the back). I'm 1.88m anf find it's much more like a road ride than the old bikes. I can put the handlebars low enough to ride forward and also to not bump my knees then.

 

Admittedly the one made a hideous noise when I made a resistance the other day and another guy showed me what happens when sweat gets on the flywheel i.e. no resistance at all. But then just use a sweat towel?

 

Good luck!

[bradwentzel]

Reply from Craig at VA Sunninghill about the bikes.

 

From: craig.taylor@virginactive.co.za

Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 10:26:23 +0200

To: <bradley.wentzel@gmail.com>

Cc: <WebAdmin@virginactive.co.za>

Subject: {Disarmed} Re: Virgin Active - Contact Club Manager

 

Hi Brad,

 

Apologies for the delayed response, I have been trying to source technical info from Matrix, which I now have. In response to your concerns below, I have put some information in red text.

 

Let me your thoughts around this and Ill be happy to get back to with more info if needed.

 

 

 

 

 

Kind Regards,

 

Craig Taylor

Club General Manager

Virgin Active South Africa / Sunninghill

011-807-5517 (tel)

086-581-0481 (fax)

craig.taylor@virginactive.co.za

www.virginactive.co.za

 

"Live Happily Ever Active"

 

-----bradley.wentzel@gmail.com wrote: -----

To: craig.taylor@virginactive.co.za

From: bradley.wentzel@gmail.com

Date: 11/29/2011 10:49AM

cc: WebAdmin@virginactive.co.za

Subject: Re: Virgin Active - Contact Club Manager

 

Hi Craig

 

I appreciate your timeous response.

 

My issues are as such...

 

The first and probably biggest, is that they simply are too small. I'm 6'3" and when setting up the bike, there is an inherent flaw in the design. When I get out the saddle, my knees are constantly bashing the handle bars. This is because the new bikes are designed in such a way that when lifting the bars, they are angled toward the rider (as opposed to the old bikes that were angled away) thereby decreasing the space between the rider and the bars. This makes it nearly impossible to ride out the saddle. The overall weight of the Tomahawk Bike is 48KG's VS the 52KG's of the Startrac. The Overall width of the Tomahawk is 540mm VS the 520mm of the Startrac. The overall length of the Tomahawk is 1284mm Vs the 1370mm of the Startrac.

 

The second is the ability of the bikes to operate when the user is out the saddle. They cannot sustain the rider's weight sufficiently and give the "falling away" feeling. This takes away half of the class structure if you cannot climb successfully.

 

I do understand the belt versus chain drive for maintenance purposes, but the apparent simulation of cycling is greatly ruined by this new machine. Outdoor riders at all levels are often aware of the inefficiency of chain in terms of power transfer and the limitations over time due to chain wear and stretch that creates wasted power output through an inefficient system. A belt drive feels so different because it is so immediate without the ‘slackness’ associated with a chain especially one worn over time (drive train, cassette, chain rings etc). A belt drive system has been tested and tried before on a number of bikes for this very reason.

Meticulous engineering and testing in the field shows absolute evidence that the Tomahawk®　Indoor cycle’s belt doesn’t slip even under extreme torque tests not possible to replicate by the human.

The "Slip" feeling is often the byproduct of a peddling action commonly known to riders as "stomping" or "mashing". This is when a rider will apply most if not all peddling effort through the 12-5 o’clock portion of the peddling stroke and not a more even 12-12 ‘o’clock range using greater muscle recruitment and a more efficient action.

Members coming from chain bikes (be it road or indoor) have previously had the "slack" of the chain to adjust this feeling where now the belts immediate response to applied force is felt differently. The rider will get custom to the sensation and adapt, hopefully embracing the opportunity to improve their peddling action. The sense of peace that allows you to get outside your mind. The chain or belt simply permits the transfer of power to the forward motion. It’s the motion that makes you feel like you’re flying.

 

 

So it seems that :

 

1.) The bikes dimesions are smaller, stated quite matter-of-factly

2.) My pedal stroke is wrong, so my non enjoyment is my fault.

 

Mmm...

[jonnow]

So - just saw that Sandton has new, new spinning bikes. Different from a week or two ago. Technogym ones. Let's see if these are any better

[dracs]

Reply from Craig at VA Sunninghill about the bikes.

 

From: craig.taylor@virginactive.co.za

Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 10:26:23 +0200

To: <bradley.wentzel@gmail.com>

Cc: <WebAdmin@virginactive.co.za>

Subject: {Disarmed} Re: Virgin Active - Contact Club Manager

 

Hi Brad,

 

Apologies for the delayed response, I have been trying to source technical info from Matrix, which I now have. In response to your concerns below, I have put some information in red text.

 

Let me your thoughts around this and Ill be happy to get back to with more info if needed.

 

 

 

 

 

Kind Regards,

 

Craig Taylor

Club General Manager

Virgin Active South Africa / Sunninghill

011-807-5517 (tel)

086-581-0481 (fax)

craig.taylor@virginactive.co.za

www.virginactive.co.za

 

"Live Happily Ever Active"

 

-----bradley.wentzel@gmail.com wrote: -----

To: craig.taylor@virginactive.co.za

From: bradley.wentzel@gmail.com

Date: 11/29/2011 10:49AM

cc: WebAdmin@virginactive.co.za

Subject: Re: Virgin Active - Contact Club Manager

 

Hi Craig

 

I appreciate your timeous response.

 

My issues are as such...

 

The first and probably biggest, is that they simply are too small. I'm 6'3" and when setting up the bike, there is an inherent flaw in the design. When I get out the saddle, my knees are constantly bashing the handle bars. This is because the new bikes are designed in such a way that when lifting the bars, they are angled toward the rider (as opposed to the old bikes that were angled away) thereby decreasing the space between the rider and the bars. This makes it nearly impossible to ride out the saddle. The overall weight of the Tomahawk Bike is 48KG's VS the 52KG's of the Startrac. The Overall width of the Tomahawk is 540mm VS the 520mm of the Startrac. The overall length of the Tomahawk is 1284mm Vs the 1370mm of the Startrac.

 

The second is the ability of the bikes to operate when the user is out the saddle. They cannot sustain the rider's weight sufficiently and give the "falling away" feeling. This takes away half of the class structure if you cannot climb successfully.

 

I do understand the belt versus chain drive for maintenance purposes, but the apparent simulation of cycling is greatly ruined by this new machine. Outdoor riders at all levels are often aware of the inefficiency of chain in terms of power transfer and the limitations over time due to chain wear and stretch that creates wasted power output through an inefficient system. A belt drive feels so different because it is so immediate without the ‘slackness’ associated with a chain especially one worn over time (drive train, cassette, chain rings etc). A belt drive system has been tested and tried before on a number of bikes for this very reason.

Meticulous engineering and testing in the field shows absolute evidence that the Tomahawk®　Indoor cycle’s belt doesn’t slip even under extreme torque tests not possible to replicate by the human.

The "Slip" feeling is often the byproduct of a peddling action commonly known to riders as "stomping" or "mashing". This is when a rider will apply most if not all peddling effort through the 12-5 o’clock portion of the peddling stroke and not a more even 12-12 ‘o’clock range using greater muscle recruitment and a more efficient action.

Members coming from chain bikes (be it road or indoor) have previously had the "slack" of the chain to adjust this feeling where now the belts immediate response to applied force is felt differently. The rider will get custom to the sensation and adapt, hopefully embracing the opportunity to improve their peddling action. The sense of peace that allows you to get outside your mind. The chain or belt simply permits the transfer of power to the forward motion. It’s the motion that makes you feel like you’re flying.

 

 

So it seems that :

 

1.) The bikes dimesions are smaller, stated quite matter-of-factly

2.) My pedal stroke is wrong, so my non enjoyment is my fault.

 

Mmm...

I got (mostly) the same reply from Craig...

Seems without a Sandton type walkout nothing will change...

[Smiles]

well anyone wanting to leave virgin who lives in hout bay can try the new velocity sports gym - had a look when i went to their vida cafe and looks really sweet. proper spinning bikes at least. and i hear rynard tissink will be running triathlon courses (things) from there.

 

http://www.velocitysportslab.co.za/

[Harryn]

I spin at Old Eds and at Greenstone. Fortunately, to date they have not changed the bikes yet at either gym. So, today I asked the instructor if the change was in the pipeline, and she was very tight lipped about it all. It seemed to me from the little she did say, that this issue has been a big bone of contention with the instructors, and I gleaned enough to figure out that they have been instructed not to air their feelings about the new bikes with the spinning public. Hope someone in management is reading this thread.

[BigGuy]

"Outdoor riders at all levels are often aware of the inefficiency of chain in terms of power transfer and the limitations over time due to chain wear and stretch that creates wasted power output through an inefficient system." Craig Taylor, on behalf of Virgin Active.

 

What utter nonsensical rubbish!

[GLuvsMtb]

"Outdoor riders at all levels are often aware of the inefficiency of chain in terms of power transfer and the limitations over time due to chain wear and stretch that creates wasted power output through an inefficient system." Craig Taylor, on behalf of Virgin Active.

 

What utter nonsensical rubbish!

Yip - Biggest load of bullsh!t. What's even worse is that they expect us to believe this!

[dracs]

Well well well! Just spotted this in VA Sunninghill's latest email...

 

NEW TECHNOGYM SPINNING BIKES

We are very pleased to inform you that our new Technogym spinning bikes are being installed on Monday the 2nd of April. Due to this we have had to cancel the 13h00 spinning class, however all other classes in the morning and the afternoon on Monday will take place as usual. Please enjoy the new spinning bikes.

 

Took a while, but presumably someone finally listened!! just in time for winter - good thing.

 

Wonder what they going to do with all those "Tomahawks"?

Edited April 2, 2012 by dracs

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Huh, that's interesting, I dont spin much anymore mostly because in my opinion the instructors think its all about "pop-corning" up and down all night and it kills my knees and lower back, but when I do take the odd class I normally spin at Broadacres VA, and I am pretty sure I must have done some since this thread was started in November but I cant really say I noticed anything different, maybe they didnt change those bikes? ................dont know, but I will have to go look tomorrow when I go swim.