working together (Tiletoria west coast express)

[Tripl3_S]

Hi Guys,

 

Great race this morning but I just want to get your opinion on something.

 

I started in the P group and had mechanical issues in the neutral zone and ended up waiting for the Q group. We were going at a decent speed when 5 guys (all J group guys riding for oreocom or something like that (big o on their back)) came flying by... naturally the front end latched on and now we were doing about 5km/h faster.

 

we dropped quite a few riders then one of the lead 5 guys dropped back to k@k out the rest of the guys for not helping.

 

I don't shy away from helping but I think if they want help they must start in the J group because the rest of us in Q are already wroking hard just to keep up with the pace... if they had a Q rider with them i could understand still

 

maybe I was just emotional after my mechanical issues

 

 

thoughts?

[Tiny K]

A'holes!

 

My thoughts are, if you want to ride in a lower group, or arrive late for the race and have to ride from a lower group, you have to expect that there are guys who will want to latch onto a faster moving group. Fact of life.

 

This even happens in the A, B, C's - there are freeloaders and these guys just want to sit wheel for 99.5% of the race and sprint the last 0.5% of the race to try take the win.

[flymango]

By my own very high standards P was really fast. Two DC teams were strong up front (again, by my very high standards ). I just couldn't stay with them on the little climb to Mamre. Luckily a few of us picked up a bunch again just after Ankerlig power station with "Cape Town Giants" doing all the work home. Thanks guys. Gave them all the glory at the finish as I held back my sprint for 719th place.

 

One small blemish on the day though. Nearly had a major pile-up just past Koeberg coming home, with somebody losing a water bottle. Couldn't help thinking that racing on the R27 is dangerous with many large bunches in the narrow emergency lane and traffic flying past at 120. Luckily we all avoided contact and nobody swerved into the traffic lane.

 

Thanks CaptainDura for doing a "recovery ride" with me.

[Tripl3_S]

I saw the 2 dc teams in P which made me even more gutted for losing them in the neutral zone... but by the sound of things it was a blessing in disguise

 

 

By my own very high standards P was really fast. Two DC teams were strong up front (again, by my very high standards ). I just couldn't stay with them on the little climb to Mamre. Luckily a few of us picked up a bunch again just after Ankerlig power station with "Cape Town Giants" doing all the work home. Thanks guys. Gave them all the glory at the finish as I held back my sprint for 719th place.

 

One small blemish on the day though. Nearly had a major pile-up just past Koeberg coming home, with somebody losing a water bottle. Couldn't help thinking that racing on the R27 is dangerous with many large bunches in the narrow emergency lane and traffic flying past at 120. Luckily we all avoided contact and nobody swerved into the traffic lane.

 

Thanks CaptainDura for doing a "recovery ride" with me.

[Tjommie]

By my own very high standards P was really fast. Two DC teams were strong up front (again, by my very high standards ). I just couldn't stay with them on the little climb to Mamre. Luckily a few of us picked up a bunch again just after Ankerlig power station with "Cape Town Giants" doing all the work home. Thanks guys. Gave them all the glory at the finish as I held back my sprint for 719th place.

 

One small blemish on the day though. Nearly had a major pile-up just past Koeberg coming home, with somebody losing a water bottle. Couldn't help thinking that racing on the R27 is dangerous with many large bunches in the narrow emergency lane and traffic flying past at 120. Luckily we all avoided contact and nobody swerved into the traffic lane.

 

Thanks CaptainDura for doing a "recovery ride" with me.

 

 

Hey Flymango

 

I was one of the guys in the DC teams, we were in the blue UNIOR kit

We had an awesome ride and didn't mind pacing, pity we lost 2 of our guys to a puncture and broken rear derailer

[X-Man]

Hey Flymango

 

I was one of the guys in the DC teams, we were in the blue UNIOR kit

We had an awesome ride and didn't mind pacing, pity we lost 2 of our guys to a puncture and broken rear derailer

 

[Tiny K]

Hey Flymango

 

I was one of the guys in the DC teams, we were in the blue UNIOR kit

We had an awesome ride and didn't mind pacing, pity we lost 2 of our guys to a puncture and broken rear derailer

 

Rather yesterday than this coming Saturday

[andydude]

I might even venture that this is becoming a problem. There are reasons why seedings are done, but what's the use if you just start way back for DC purposes? If you want to do a DC ride - go train on your own. This was a race. I can understand being late, etc., but not 80% of a DC team with a C or D seeding and then starting in M, Q or P! If C starts in E or F then it's still ok I guess. But if starting in a much weaker group then you get problems like with the OP. Different fitness levels. Different group riding skills.

[Lucky Luke.]

If you start in a group way lower than your seeding, then *** out the guys in that group for not helping you pace the bunch, you are a ****. Surely the point of starting lower down was so that you could ride with your DC team, not so that you could ride at the pace of a slower bunch?

 

If you are stronger than your bunch ride away from them and join another one. It really is that simple.

[MTB_Roadie]

I might even venture that this is becoming a problem. There are reasons why seedings are done, but what's the use if you just start way back for DC purposes? If you want to do a DC ride - go train on your own. This was a race. I can understand being late, etc., but not 80% of a DC team with a C or D seeding and then starting in M, Q or P! If C starts in E or F then it's still ok I guess. But if starting in a much weaker group then you get problems like with the OP. Different fitness levels. Different group riding skills.

 

I see it as a opportunity to improve your seeding faster....by having a faster group for a change can help the people improve their seeding as they mainly work in the front being wheel sucked so never get the chance...so I think it is awesome being pulled sometimes. Guess it is a advantage for the slower groups being pulled by the faster people

[stratus5]

If you had a look at the start you would see that the fine demolition job the PPA did of the seedings last year has worked well. There were almost no riders ahead of G group, and A-F were so small they combined them into one group. Behind G though, the groups looked quite big, in fact there were 40 in G alone, more than the combined A-F

 

Its a fact that unless you are an incredibly strong rider its almost impossible to break away from D/E/F/G/H and make up a seeding position in a PPA race, so that is where you sit until different seeding is used in races like the Argus, 99er etc.

 

A group of Outriders started in G, and yes there was a mixed bunch of strengths in the group (C-G), but we have found that the rides are just so much more fun when an experienced rider like Gerard Genis is there to organise through and offs etc. If riders can hang on and get times much better than they would have in G normally, then had they been in lower seeded groups, they could have hung on just as well.

[Let's Ride]

Na, Guys hang on but for dear life. Start in your seeded group I say.

[andydude]

If you had a look at the start you would see that the fine demolition job the PPA did of the seedings last year has worked well. There were almost no riders ahead of G group, and A-F were so small they combined them into one group. Behind G though, the groups looked quite big, in fact there were 40 in G alone, more than the combined A-F

 

Its a fact that unless you are an incredibly strong rider its almost impossible to break away from D/E/F/G/H and make up a seeding position in a PPA race, so that is where you sit until different seeding is used in races like the Argus, 99er etc.

 

A group of Outriders started in G, and yes there was a mixed bunch of strengths in the group (C-G), but we have found that the rides are just so much more fun when an experienced rider like Gerard Genis is there to organise through and offs etc. If riders can hang on and get times much better than they would have in G normally, then had they been in lower seeded groups, they could have hung on just as well.

 

Like I said before - not PPA's fault if the people don't start in the correct seeding! Aarrgghh!! Now I had to analyze the numbers of the West Coast.

 

In the order of my bold above:

 

A-F = 47 finishers - not small at all!

 

G = 40 finishers - less than A-F. And only 22 or 55% with an actual G seeding?!

 

Almost impossible? Then why do so many riders get it right? Shouldn't you be strong to actually move up from F, E or D taking into account the Elites consist of A and B riders? (BTW I'm not an elite rider). The summer season is around the corner with more than enough races to prove your mettle.

 

No disrespect, but it's more fun because you don't race, but only pace-line. I guess it's a question of what you want out of your riding?

 

The West Coast is probably the easiest ride in terms of being able to stick to a group so don't use this one for your reasoning.

 

As I've said before, I think the PPA seeding works quite well, but although it is already very difficult to keep everyone happy, the riders further complicate things by starting in the wrong groups and then skewing the results. I guess there is are more statistical terms for this, but I'm not a statitician (spelled correctly)?

 

On the other hand, Darren, your post is entirely without fact and merit. You are the weakest link. Good-bye! And take this in the normal Hub spirit; I'm not degrading you or anything.

[stratus5]

AndyDude LOL ... taken in spirit intended G looked bigger ... Thats got to count for something.

 

Some riders in earlier groups now hang back to start with the Outriders Blue train based on previous experiences where the earlier groups got caught.

 

Last year I had an "F" PPA and still managed a 2:53 Argus ... so by personal experience I know how hard it was to try and improve your seeding. The PPA seeding was so restrictive last year, that even the winner of a race could do no better than a B seeding for that race and as a result PPA has thinned out D to F considerably.

 

On Sunday riders in the D to F group that I normally "kill" took five minutes out of me because they were able to hang onto the A (A-F started together) riders on the flat course. Not really fair to consolidate the groups like that either.

 

I enjoy an organised group where everybody shares the load and the hill specilaists are now just a little more tired. We have had fantastic feedback from riders that have joined or benefited from the organised group effort. That poor litle SACS guy and the British import will understand what I am getting at. I raced thge second half in I group at Klein Joostenburg after a puncture and only four or five people in that group were doing any work. Cant be much fun?

 

The worm will turn next year though when the Cape Cobra and roller coaster sort the men out from the boys.

[Lucky Luke.]

Guys, sometimes people don't do any work in the bunch. Lance Armstrong won the tour 7 times without doing his fair share of pacing the bunch. OMG! how did he win? (besides ingesting a small pharmacy along the way) - he attacked the other contenders and rode away from them.

 

If you're not happy with the guys in your bunch rather ride away from them. Complaining or soliciting for moral support on the internet is without a doubt the least effective tactic.

[stratus5]

If you're not happy with the guys in your bunch rather ride away from them.

 

Isn't that always the "plan" for all of us? Its just the execution that is a bit lacking