GrumpyOldGuy Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 Grumps, The problem comes when some people (such as the fella in the first post of this thread) take things very literally and then tell others what to do with their time and how to observe the day. I lived in Sasolburg in the OFS at a time when fishing on a Sunday was a criminal offence on Sunday in the OFS. People would fish on the South Bank of the Vaal on Saturday and cross over the river to fish in the Transvaal on the North Bank of the Vaal on Sunday. Total nonsense but it was law. With you there all the way bud. There are many points open to choice as you say.
Big H* Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 We don't know if he rested, he could have, no one has seen him to ask, maybe one day when we do meet we will find out, until then we don't know for sure. As I said above it depends on the biblical scholar you follow, from the seminars I have attended they think it was a parable to preach a message because we simply do not know. However that do's not mean the entire bible is a parable, millions saw Jesus from a babe in a manager to the miracles he worked, to his walking the land and preaching his faith to his crucifixion, death and resurrection. He was known to the apostles, he was seen daily, the new testament is easily provable, but many confuse the two testaments and thats where there is often confusion. That said I am an absolute believer and a fervant Christian, I have studied the bible for years, however I am the first to admit there are inaccuracies, I could list many, but they have to be seen from the times they were written, not from today's understanding. ....but nice debate Johan, good points on both side's Jesus was not only mortal, he was the Son of God, he was/is part of the Trinity since creation.
Caerus Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 Jesus was not only mortal, he was the Son of God, he was/is part of the Trinity since creation. Aren't we all?
GrumpyOldGuy Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 This sounds like a normal day to me. Either they were resting, or they were shopping. Which one shall it be? Sorry, I missed that bit, indeed, it was a normal day, Jesus never said sit at home, quite the contrary, he said come to the temple and rejoice, he knew resting is not necessarily laying on a bed, it could be a change of scenery, meeting a friend, its spending time with your family - however he also wanted them to keep the day holy and first attend the religious service - again, you can take the word literally if you want, but not all scholars agree, and the fact that markets were popular at the temple sites seem to prove that was not the intention.
The Drongo Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 Jesus wasn't around when the alleged resting period happened, so your Jesus is a man and therefore needed to rest and set that example explanation doesn't hold water. Besides, when he eventually took the cue to come on stage he was a god walking on earth posing as a man. I don't see why he needed to rest. This is just so convoluted. Interesting comment, in light of this particular piece of scripture....Col 1: 13-18 He delivered us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of his love, by means of whom we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of our sins. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all things and by means of him all things were made to exist, and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that he might become the one who is first in all things. NWT For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. NIV Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. KJ ..who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love; in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins: who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him; and he is before all things, and in him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.. My take is that he was there...
GrumpyOldGuy Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 Jesus was not only mortal, he was the Son of God, he was/is part of the Trinity since creation. Indeed, hence the ability to work miracles.
Caerus Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 Sorry, I missed that bit, indeed, it was a normal day, Jesus never said sit at home, quite the contrary, he said come to the temple and rejoice, he knew resting is not necessarily laying on a bed, it could be a change of scenery, meeting a friend, its spending time with your family - however he also wanted them to keep the day holy and first attend the religious service - again, you can take the word literally if you want, but not all scholars agree, and the fact that markets were popular at the temple sites seem to prove that was not the intention. Why/ when did it split into the scholars that took the word literally, or still take the word literally into the scholars/ preachers that don't. Was that why the new Testament was written?
The Drongo Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 Why/ when did it split into the scholars that took the word literally, or still take the word literally into the scholars/ preachers that don't. Was that why the new Testament was written? Old - Hebrew New - Greek
GrumpyOldGuy Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 Why/ when did it split into the scholars that took the word literally, or still take the word literally into the scholars/ preachers that don't. Was that why the new Testament was written? It never really split in my opinion, there are so many scholars who have and continue to study the bible, that there are always going to be different views on any passage of importance, especially the old testament. Even certain christian faiths disagree on certain points. But yes, the new testament is provable, Jesus walked among the people, its proved, unfortunately, many faiths are very new, they have no history, they pop up with little understanding and teach a literal bible with no scholarly backround, there is one monk in SA who has devoted his life to the study of the old testament, he is almost 80 and still has not completed his work, .....as they say, its complicated.!
Shebeen Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 okee dokee, wasn't that long ago that you couldn't play tennis on a sunday in stellenbosch. wouldn't be surprised if that's still the case. anywhooo,who is the most religious dude in the pro peleton. any blokes with weird issues, like no racing on a sunday?any scientologists with a vo2 max of a pony? michael jones used to play flank for the all blacks, refused to play on a sunday. the aussies used to schedule bledisloe cup matches on those days to give themselves a chance.His international career was also affected by his strong Christian beliefs, as he refused to play on Sundays.[9] Although he was selected for the 1987 and 1991 All Black World Cup squads, he missed three Sunday games in the 1991 tournament due to his religious beliefs. .[10] Jones was omitted from the 1995 squad as he would have been unavailable for the quarterfinal and semifinal games.[9] He was once asked how a Christian such as himself could be such an uncompromising tackler. In reply he quoted a phrase from the Bible: is better to give than receive.[11][12]
Big H* Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) Aren't we all? Jesus sits with God in Heaven with the same authority as the Holy Ghost to form theTrinity. We were only created as his image and we aspire to grow closer to God. While we are here, download the app "Holy Bible" on your smartphone, iPad or tablet. It is free with the Bible available in many languages, including Afrikaans, some translations in English are even available as audio versions. Edited December 1, 2011 by eccentric1
The Guy in Pink Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) Jesus was not only mortal, he was the Son of God, he was/is part of the Trinity since creation. It was listening to a small Irish Priest try explain the working of the Holy Trinity to a group of us 15 years old school boys on the steps of the playing fields that first caused my doubts about Christianity. Being Irish his explanations were no doubt more convoluted than they needed to be , but I left him thinking , “This cannot be right – God cannot be so complicated.”I took another 40 years before those doubts became convictions. I now think that the Buddha got it right 2500 years ago when he refused to answer the Question - Is there a God? for two reasons. .His first reason was that it is not possible from our own experience and rational thought and without reference to other people or their writings, to reach a definite conclusion to the question, so trying to answer the question will only result in dissatisfaction . His second reason was that for a moral man the answer is irrelevant : A Moral man will lead his life no differently in the presence or absence of a god. Edited December 1, 2011 by The Guy in Pink
Big H* Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 It was listening to a small Irish Priest try explain the working of the Holy Trinity to a group of us 15 years old school boys on the steps of the playing fields that first caused my doubts about Christianity. Being Irish his explanations were no doubt more convoluted than they needed to be , but I left him thinking , “This cannot be right – God cannot be so complicated.”I took another 40 years before those doubts became convictions. I now think that the Buddha got it right 2500 years ago when he refused to answer the Question - Is there a God? for two reasons. .His first reason was that it is not possible from our own experience and rational thought and without reference to other people or their writings, to reach a definite conclusion to the question, so trying to answer the question will only result in dissatisfaction . His second reason was that for a moral man the answer is irrelevant : A Moral man will lead his life no differently in the presence or absence of a god. God said it, I believe it, that settles it........... nothing long winded or difficult about that?
The Guy in Pink Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 God said it, I believe it, that settles it........... nothing long winded or difficult about that? I seems that he said something different to everyone though . . . .
Big H* Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 I seems that he said something different to everyone though . . . . ........... that settles it
The Guy in Pink Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 ........... that settles itYep well, whatever floats your boat .. I just get more satisfaction from rational thought than from irrational belief.
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