Trail Signage approved for Table Mountain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MPrider]

Good man for reminding me.

 

Here is how this signage is set out.

The signs with one arrow will be placed along the 26km suggested loop I have on my map.

The signage with more arrows and destinations will be placed off the suggested route, at all the other intersections. For instance, Deer Park will get more of these , higher up against the mountain.

At all locations, you have the numbers which you will find on the map.

The last sign (the one I like the least), will be placed where we are not allowed to cycle. In fairness to everyone, there will be no more ambiguity about where we can and can't ride. Hard to swallow, but no more excuses.

My next job , once the signage is put into the ground is to lobby to get the NO CYCLING ones removed.

 

San Parks are doing a trail map of their own which you will soon find in large format at the Info Centre , top of Kloof Nek and other locations.

The numbers will correspond on both the TMB and San Parks maps, so no confusion.

A cool feature of the the San Parks map: They will have a QR reader taking you to the TMB website where you can find out about any potential security issues on the mountain.

serious question:

How many of the No 9 signs exactly are you supposed to put up and where will they spoil my fun?

sad realisation:

The tenderpreneur who gets to manufacture the No 9 sign will make a killing!

[DJR]

serious question:

How many of the No 9 signs exactly are you supposed to put up and where will they spoil my fun?

sad realisation:

The tenderpreneur who gets to manufacture the No 9 sign will make a killing!

 

This is perhaps not the answer you were hoping for, but I'll take your bait and give it anyway:

 

If YOU ride illegal trails, YOU will be spoiling the fun for everyone else, because you will prevent us from getting legal access to more parts of the mountain and eventually sour our relationship with SANParks so badly that we get banned from riding on Table Mountain.

[Guest Omega Man]

This is perhaps not the answer you were hoping for, but I'll take your bait and give it anyway:

 

If YOU ride illegal trails, YOU will be spoiling the fun for everyone else, because you will prevent us from getting legal access to more parts of the mountain and eventually sour our relationship with SANParks so badly that we get banned from riding on Table Mountain.

And if he bothered reading the post's he's know that the signage was being sponsored by William Simpson. Not a tenderpreneur. But an entrepreneur and mountain biker.

[MPrider]

This is perhaps not the answer you were hoping for, but I'll take your bait and give it anyway:

 

If YOU ride illegal trails, YOU will be spoiling the fun for everyone else, because you will prevent us from getting legal access to more parts of the mountain and eventually sour our relationship with SANParks so badly that we get banned from riding on Table Mountain.

guys, I'm not at all trying to be funny here.

I am seriously interested in finding out what's legal and what illegal. I have picked up one of the maps and it indicates a 26km jeep track loop, which is great. the signs will help and everything. But the truth is there are so many more trails. Some of the trails, especially on signal hill are clearly marked illegal with a R500 fine - so obviously we respect that and don't ride them.

However there are a lot of other trails above higgovale and deer park and above tamboerskloof that are not marked at all, which is why we always thought it's ok to ride here (as does Mr Vogel, I see him there regularly). My fear is now that these trails will be marked as illegal, simply because they are not indicated on the map so far. maybe that'll come, but until then I assume i'll have to stay on the MTB Route? is that assumption right?

[JGR]

guys, I'm not at all trying to be funny here.

I am seriously interested in finding out what's legal and what illegal. I have picked up one of the maps and it indicates a 26km jeep track loop, which is great. the signs will help and everything. But the truth is there are so many more trails. Some of the trails, especially on signal hill are clearly marked illegal with a R500 fine - so obviously we respect that and don't ride them.

However there are a lot of other trails above higgovale and deer park and above tamboerskloof that are not marked at all, which is why we always thought it's ok to ride here (as does Mr Vogel, I see him there regularly). My fear is now that these trails will be marked as illegal, simply because they are not indicated on the map so far. maybe that'll come, but until then I assume i'll have to stay on the MTB Route? is that assumption right?

Then trying being constructive and putting your fears (concerns) on the table for a discussion instead of bashing people who use their own time and resources securing your routes.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

 

guys, I'm not at all trying to be funny here.

I am seriously interested in finding out what's legal and what illegal. I have picked up one of the maps and it indicates a 26km jeep track loop, which is great. the signs will help and everything. But the truth is there are so many more trails. Some of the trails, especially on signal hill are clearly marked illegal with a R500 fine - so obviously we respect that and don't ride them.

However there are a lot of other trails above higgovale and deer park and above tamboerskloof that are not marked at all, which is why we always thought it's ok to ride here (as does Mr Vogel, I see him there regularly). My fear is now that these trails will be marked as illegal, simply because they are not indicated on the map so far. maybe that'll come, but until then I assume i'll have to stay on the MTB Route? is that assumption right?

 

Then why didn't you say that in the first place, instead of coming on like a self righteous chop?

[(Deon)]

Can the MTB evangelist respond? (oh sorry, 'Messiah')

 

The answer = Yes.

 

Stay on the trails marked legal and once the EMP for mountain biking is complete, TMNP will know what we as a user group require and what the mountain can sustainably accommodate without negatively impacting on the other users. See that? Other users.

 

The front of the mountain is the wild west in terms of control. You have already indicated your stand-point in terms of the rules but what you need to know is that you are not alone. Before Rob volunteered to manage Table Mountain North, cptmayhem and I were receiving complaints from the SANParks Honorary Rangers about incidents of absolute abuse being hurled by the riders at hikers - and in some cases, the HR's themselves. We (mountain bikers) were on a path of destruction. Mountain biking was being vilified by individuals with a similar disregard for plain and basic manners. Add to the abuse, riders were riding where they liked and pleading ignorance. I am still encountering the effects of this storeotype from Parks Rangers. On Sunday I was referred to as "one of you lighties who builds this stuff", a remnant of how mountain biking is seen by the people put in charge of responding to complaints. Give this some thought..

 

I hope you are getting a clearer picture of the "way things were", not a very bright future was it?

Edited October 31, 2012 by Pain or Shine

[DJR]

Can someone give us an indication of the current status quo re. legal trails on the North Face of Table Mountain? (From Rhodes memorial to Signal Hill)

 

The way I understand it, all Jeep tracks between Rhodes Mem and Kloof Neck is allowed below Tafelberg Road. No single track or hiking paths are allowed. Jeep tracks (all or just some?) below Tafelberg Road on Signal Hill is allowed, but nothing above Tafelberg Road, especially no hiking paths.

[udxcob]

Where do we get maps of the legal trails?

Edited October 31, 2012 by udxcob

[udxcob]

Sorry got it off the other post

[Danie]

I think the issue that MPRider is raising is valid.

 

On the one hand one can argue that if the trails are illegal and under the radar then there is a status quo that can be respected.

 

However now we will have a situation where literally only the legal trails will signposted, but not only that, the illegal trails will be signposted too.

The reality of the matter is that hikers and dog walkers can now point to the sign when the illegal trail is used.

 

Hence we now have a situation where the status quo has been disrupted but the only thing that's been gained from a mountain biker point of view is that it’s now very clear that everyone is riding illegal trails, which in my view isn't a gain at all.

(Maybe not everyone, as there seems to be a big group of people with expensive mountain bikes that don’t actually ride single track and think that a 100k bike is good for marathon races only…)

So personally I am not sure (as I said above) what’s been gained?

Some important considerations:

1. Table Mountain is used by a massive amount of walkers, thus an agreement with walkers is very important.
   
2. Table Mountain is public land, doesn’t really matter what SANParks thinks or says, its public (every time I hear a hubber or someone say that the place should be privatised I get the creeps! What is it with people with money and privatising of land?!) and it should stay public.
   
3. The last thing anyone wants (again maybe not everyone, this country seems to be divided into those that make the rules and those that can pay to break them) is access control to the mountain, its really completely erodes the concept of public access and public land and just reinforces the stereotype that South African is free as long as you have money…
   

 

So I think it’s important that the users (that’s US, even the okes using table mountain only to train for the Epic) buys into the mission of the Table Mountain Bikers and that Table Mountain Bikers stick to the mission. Now I am not sure exactly what the mission is or what the values are that Table Mountain Bikers are trying to adhere to, I do think that it’s important to understand and debate them.

[DJR]

Ghettoblaster, you get full marks for a sensible and level headed FIRST POST that makes a positive contribution to this discussion! Great stuff , even though I might not agree with 100% of it.

 

"The last thing anyone wants (again maybe not everyone, this country seems to be divided into those that make the rules and those that can pay to break them) is access control to the mountain, its really completely erodes the concept of public access and public land and just reinforces the stereotype that South African is free as long as you have money…"

 

I'm in 2 minds on this one. If I look at the places where there are access control (Tokai, Silvermine, CapePoint), they seem a lot safer than where the mountain is completely open (Rhodes Memorial, Deer Park, Signal Hill). On principle, I hate the idea of restricted access to something that should be open and free to all, but I also wonder if some form of access control on other parts of the mountain might not make it more accessable to people that currently stay away because of safety issues. I know that my wife would love to walk our dogs at Rhodes Mem, but she doesn't unless I go along. She feels too vulnerable on her own. Having it "free and open" in practice excludes her. Therefore I might be willing to accept increased access control if it is reasonably priced (activity card is OK with me). Access control should be applied equally to all users, whether you hike, run, walk the dog , ride a bike or a horse. If there is no access control (difficult in parts), then there should be much more vigilant patrolling to keep the mountain safe.

[Danie]

DJR - thanks for a nice introduction.

 

I agree with you on the safety issue, however its important to note that we shouldn't mix up issues here.

 

One issue is safety another is trail access/illegal trails.

 

I will be happiest to have more access to trails on table mountain without impeding on my ability to enjoy them without access control. That is what freedom is about. (I am a liberal and idealist just so we are clear here).

 

A further issue that seems to creeping up especially from posters like Pain and Shine, is this belief that some people's actions and ideas will be good for all mountain bikers using the mountain.

 

As I said in my post (be it sarcastically), if your aim in life is to ride a 100k mountain bike up and down on jeep track to the block house and back and get fist bumps and high fives, well then this new arrangement is perfect! Basically nothing changes you can just shout at the okes on the illegal trails now.

 

If however you view mountain biking as a pursuit of single track with friends after work, well then it's not so great now is it?

[(Deon)]

I am open to suggestions on how control can be brought to the mountain without introducing control.. denying that is needed would be ignorance of other user needs.

 

We don't have any up-to-date document that shows the needs of this hugely popular sport, the rewrite of the EMP is not only supported by TMNP but also the majority of mountain bikers. Parks are in favour of mountain biking but it has to be managed. Sorry.

 

Remember that the mandate has been set, not by people like myself or Rob or any mountain biker.. the request to make a change is being set by the "landowner" or curator for a better word.

[kandui]

Happy to debate this in a meeting. Just to make a point. Give the San Parks rangers a bit more credit. It's not like the trail map has woken them up to the fact that there are trails they didn't know about. They are out there every day and know the mountain better than any of us. The rangers know where guys are riding illegally. The fact that they are getting away with it , has more to do with lack of resources and priorities.

Rangers want us to use the mountain and like ideas TMB has proposed to share trails with other users. Don't get them mixed up with San Parks management. The desk jockeys are the problem.

Baby steps required here to make progress.

If you want to debate, I am happy to meet.

[DJR]

............... The desk jockeys are the problem...............

Sure is like that the world over.