Maffetone style training

[davetapson]

Has anyone tried training Maffetone style? I.e. 180 - age?

 

Is supposed to give you monster aerobic power, which is allegedly all that is required for endurance events.

 

I've tried it now and then, but end up losing focus and going back to interval type training. Is it worth persevering?

[LOOK695]

Never heard of maffetone

[davetapson]

Here's the basics:

 

180 formula: http://philmaffetone.com/180formula.cfm

 

Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing: http://www.kalahari.com/books/The-Big-Book-of-Endurance-Training-and-Racing/632/36851510.aspx

 

He trained Mark Allen to become one of the greatest iron man champs ever.

[Robrider]

Never heard of it until you mentioned it. But there are a few obvious problems from the onset. My thoughts are:

 

Base training (LSD) at a fairly low HR (zone 2 on most systems) is well established to build aerobic endurance.

By itself will not create peak fitness.

A periodised approach which starts with base and moves to higher level abilities and specific race like work outs does create peak fitness.

 

Every one's HR is different. Some have naturally high and some have naturally low. So any specific number minus age has as much chance being right as being wrong. So I would say, find your OWN zone, instead of using a formula.

 

As for you question, does it work... Its like building a pyramid. The larger you build the base, the higher you can build upwards.

[davidlangebaan]

I tried it and for long endurance events like Ironman it works! I trained for and raced IM at Maffetone intensity. It will probably work out at around 75% of your max, or close to Joe Friel's zone 2.

 

Advantages:

I don't think the average oke can sustain higher than 75% of Max HR over 12 hours of racing so you are training in your racing zone.

You are much less likely to get injured at lower intensities

You build a massive aerobic base if you put in the hours - if you're only training and hour a day I wouldn't bother - it's for endurance training

Add some intervals (for shorter events) after 3 months of Maffetone work and you will be amazed at how high a peak you reach

 

Buy the Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing. Be aware that Maffetone also recommends an LCHF diet, which he also descibes in some detail, along with this type of training to get the most out of it.

Edited June 6, 2013 by davidlangebaan

[davidlangebaan]

Mark Allen recommends that you use the Maffetone method until you reach a plateau in you training, then go to intervals until you stop improving there, then back to Maffetone and so on.

See his article on this here: http://www.markallenonline.com/maoArticles.aspx?AID=2

[SwissVan]

Mark Allen recommends that you use the Maffetone method until you reach a plateau in you training, then go to intervals until you stop improving there, then back to Maffetone and so on.

See his article on this here: http://www.markallen...cles.aspx?AID=2

 

I like what MA says and it makes perfect sense wrt to endurance events. All in all I believe it depends on what type of event you are training for (edit): and what your goals are.

 

With regards to the HR formula that Dr Maffetone uses, in my case his formula for calculating "base training or aerobic fat burning zones" comes out at the same figure that I arrived at previously using blood lactate testing, hill / flat time trail effort tests, max HR tests all of which were done under supervision of highly qualified coaches.

 

So ja in my case I would also agree with Dr Maffetone's HR formula for endurance training, although using a basic formula for everyone might be a bit iffy. Perhaps the variables (adding or subtracting a few beats per minute based on your level of fitness, age etc) might make it more accurate.

Edited June 6, 2013 by SwissVan

[Helpmytrap]

That seems like a tall order in my case, I'd have to continuously ride at 160bpm.

I can't see me maintaining that intensity day after day, maybe every second day. Plus I still jog 30min 5-6 times a week.

 

But I'll give it a go after Rooiberg.

[Snytjie]

I've followed it for a year, and I'm happy.

 

I have nothing to compare it against: I only started training seriously for the first time in my life about 18 months ago. I've research training methods, -plans and - perspectives extensively during this time. I find Maffetone's arguments convincing and agreeing with people like Joe Friel and tim Noakes. As I see it, his basic premises are:

 

1. Your body stores large amounts of fat and limited amounts of glucose to use as endurance fuel. If you use mostly glucose as fuel, you cannot digest enough to replace expenditure. You will run out of fuel in longer events. Therefore, the more effectively you burn fat the more endurance you'll have.

2. His formula point you towards your anaerobic threshold. Below this threshold you burn mostly fat, and above it mostly glucose.

3. Training at the threshold for extended "base-building periods" results in you becoming faster while still burning mostly fat. This is a good recipe for endurance events. It sort of a sweetspot between optimum fat burning and speed.

4. Anaerobic training is also added to improve your speed, but only after building good base.

5. Low- intensity training like this allows you to race faster while minimizing the risk for injury and over- training.

 

A LCHF diet definitely resonates with this type of training. I'm doing the training and the LCHF diet, and I'm very happy. I never feel shattered during training (apart form a few hard anaerobic sessions leading up to a race), and in 3 races I've comfortably broke my goal race times. During 2103/2014 I have a four 70.3 triathlon season, and I guess that would be the ultimate test for me.

 

I can imagine that this type of training must be very difficult at first for those used to constant high- intensity or interval training. But as is testified to in his book by a few pro's, its worth it in the end. And, what's good enough for Mark Allen certainly is good enough for me

Edited June 6, 2013 by Snytjie

[SwissVan]

That seems like a tall order in my case, I'd have to continuously ride at 160bpm.

I can't see me maintaining that intensity day after day, maybe every second day. Plus I still jog 30min 5-6 times a week.

 

But I'll give it a go after Rooiberg.

 

 

Its supposed to be easy training and should be very easy to achieve, did you use Maffetones formula to arrive at 160 bpm?

 

Maffetones formula / method you will give you the maximum HR for your aerobic zone, so if you got 160bpm that would be the max HR you should see which does not mean you should train at 160 bpm every time, lower than 160 is the goal.

 

But then formulas are not always an exact science.... but the idea behind it is the big clue i.e. for long endurance events you need to train in your fat burning zones

[SwissVan]

 

Has anyone tried training Maffetone style? I.e. 180 - age?

 

 

 

Ok motormouth here tried it tonight on a training jog... jinna it is very hard to keep the HR at or below the formula HR (131), might have to take up speed walking for the next few weeks.

[SeaBee]

...and then there are us with naturally high HR's. If I follow that, I will only be allowed riding downhill - and by that I don't mean Minnaar-style!

[SwissVan]

...and then there are us with naturally high HR's. If I follow that, I will only be allowed riding downhill - and by that I don't mean Minnaar-style!

 

In my case i'm just not very running fit at the moment, but think I will order the book and see what the Dr says about people with natural high heart rates, I know he says you should persevere in the beginning and be patient but also know some people who are regular runners who will not be running much with that formula.

[Grondpad]

In my case i'm just not very running fit at the moment, but think I will order the book and see what the Dr says about people with natural high heart rates, I know he says you should persevere in the beginning and be patient but also know some people who are regular runners who will not be running much with that formula.

In my case i'm just not very running fit at the moment, but think I will order the book and see what the Dr says about people with natural high heart rates, I know he says you should persevere in the beginning and be patient but also know some people who are regular runners who will not be running much with that formula.

...and then there are us with naturally high HR's. If I follow that, I will only be allowed riding downhill - and by that I don't mean Minnaar-style!

I have to agree here. On the bike it is easy to maintain even a 65% of max HR, but running is a bit of a problem. For most (like me) you have to walk now and then to keep the HR below 80% during a gentle jog. I dont know how someone can stay at less than 75% running, but during the Comrades broadcast they showed the HR af one runner (Shaun Meiklejohn) and he was at 74% at the halfway mark. So it is possible, I just dont know how

[SwissVan]

I have to agree here. On the bike it is easy to maintain even a 65% of max HR, but running is a bit of a problem. For most (like me) you have to walk now and then to keep the HR below 80% during a gentle jog. I dont know how someone can stay at less than 75% running, but during the Comrades broadcast they showed the HR af one runner (Shaun Meiklejohn) and he was at 74% at the halfway mark. So it is possible, I just dont know how

 

I'm guessing that they (Dr Maffetone) will say that patience and perseverance will be required in the beginning

 

Quote:

"Initially, training at this relatively low rate may be stressful for many athletes. “I just can’t train that slowly!” is a common comment. But after a short time, you will feel better and your pace will quicken at that same heart rate. You will not be stuck training at that relatively slow pace for too long. Still, for many athletes it is difficult to change bad habits"

[SeaBee]

SwissVan - age-based HR thingies just don't work for me. Unless he's got an exception list.

 

If you look at the good old 220- or 217-formula, their max means I'd hear harp music every time I come out of my (real) Karvonen zone 3. You should've seen me go pale the first time I wore a HR monitor, obviously with the 220 formula values in my head - thought I was having a heart attack or something! Had a friend test it out immediately to see whether the bloody thing works.