Freedom challenge 2013 route access issues

[deanbean]

I’ve had a look at your website(I take it you are one of the four owners?), and I really must applaud you for the work, time and money put into the property. I can understand that it is really not about the money as I’m sure you have stopped counting how much you’ve put in by now.

 

It does seem like you’re in a bind here, however. We all accept that Die Leer is a public right of way, so you can’t really claim it to be only available to the landowners and the paying guests(a stated unique selling point). Now that it’s come to a head the situation is likely to be resolved – either the land is private or the public can come and go as they please. If it’s the latter, then I expect the privacy and solace you have been enjoying and fighting for might be a thing of the past now that this has become such a public matter.

 

I follow this with interest, the langebaan ratepayers vs dormell properties for access to White road was a good read.

My take on the issue as well, is that exclusive access is the point.

maybe a dumb questions, but is there another access road to the ladder?

As far as I know no other access is available.

[Shebeen]

I'm not an owner as such, but an interested and affected party and you are right about the time and money spent. Although there is business aspect operated through a trust, it is operated at a loss as all the turnover (and some extra cash input from the owner's pockets) goes into maintaining the place. Visitors might have noticed for instance the orange TLB/digger parked under the shed at Boplaas which was bought and is operated at significant expense to one of the owners for the purpose of maintaining the private road from Cape Nature to the Ladder as it is not maintained by the authorities (being a private road).

I can well imagine that, from the website the cottages look much better than I remember them being when I went through in 2008 (don't think there was much at all in 1999 the first time I was there). The main road from the pass is in excellent condition currently and has clearly had some work done recently.

[Slowbee]

I'm not an owner as such, but an interested and affected party and you are right about the time and money spent. Although there is business aspect operated through a trust, it is operated at a loss as all the turnover (and some extra cash input from the owner's pockets) goes into maintaining the place. Visitors might have noticed for instance the orange TLB/digger parked under the shed at Boplaas which was bought and is operated at significant expense to one of the owners for the purpose of maintaining the private road from Cape Nature to the Ladder as it is not maintained by the authorities (being a private road).

 

so actually the access is about money.

[Ketoorskop]

so actually the access is about money.

Your opinion.

 

Fact is, open it up and suddenly we no control over who or what or when comes in and out of the place...

Edited June 28, 2013 by Ketoorskop

[dillon]

so actually the access is about money.

 

With only one access road to the Ladder I would say yes, all about the $$. The public have no other way of getting there except via a locked gate and aggressive farmers who will "arrest you".

 

Looks like a good spot for eToll

[Slowbee]

Your opinion.

 

Fact is, open it up and suddenly we no control over who or what or when comes in and out of the place...

Is that not what a servitude is ?

[Ketoorskop]

With only one access road to the Ladder I would say yes, all about the $$. The public have no other way of getting there except via a locked gate and aggressive farmers who will "arrest you".

 

Looks like a good spot for eToll

Baseless remarks again and this after I apologised for my comments about the comparison with Cape Epic earlier for the same reason...

[Slowbee]

And of course only the guests of the farm have access to the ladder from top and bottom, at no charge.

[Ketoorskop]

Is that not what a servitude is ?

I'm not prepared to debate the legality of that matter.

[Shebeen]

Baseless remarks again and this after I apologised for my comments about the comparison with Cape Epic earlier for the same reason...

I'm with you on this one. I don't think this is a fight about money at all. This has been a very civil debate considering the topic at interest, let's not degenerate into namecalling.

 

This is an argument over the interpretation of a public right of way on private property.

Here's an example of another section of road near montagu where the landowner has done the locked gate and sign method of barring access.

this guy probably has to keep on putting a new lock on.

[Shebeen]

The route up The Ladder is an historic route that has been used for many generations. The landowners'website confirms this:

All produce from farming had to be carried out on pack donkeys via a few routes and even up the now famous ladder route;

http://www.diehel.co.za/overview/

 

The law relating to historical rights of way is clearly set out in a recent judgment in the Western Cape:

http://www.saflii.or...HC/2012/50.html

 

From the judgment it is clear that the public right of way exists completely independently of any proclaimed road.

 

As The Ladder is a public right of way the permission of landowners is not required.

 

I understand that a number of the farmers of the area are also aggrieved by the attempts of the landowners to restrict access and have expressed their support of the Freedom Challenge in asserting this right..

 

All over the country these public rights of way are being unlawfully closed off. The question really is what is the role of members of this forum in protecting these public rights of way?

What sort of costs would the developers have incurred here in losing this judgement?

[Slowbee]

Ok like Ketoorskop I have work to do.

 

So my thoughts.

 

One the one hand are the race organisers who are insisting they have right to access the ladder and do not need land owners permission to do this.

 

On the other hand you have land owners who are saying that they do no believe they have to give access over their land to the ladder. They will (would?) grant this access given that someone asked them.

 

Firstly, in terms of the race (if this was just about the race), I am sure Dave would just ask and it would be granted (as per that sign).

 

Secondly, the owners have shown goodwill by allowing riders through their land, but enough is enough for them. They just want someone to show some courtesy and ask permission, even though strictly according to the law it is not required.

 

However, looking at more than just the race, by asking permission, it could be an acknowledgment that the general public does not have right of access over the land to get to the ladder. This is a problem from the point of view that the Freedom Challenge is also a touring route and not just a race route. Also how many people actually want to use the ladder (put that's another issue).

 

Then there are the landowners, they do not want people wondering around on their land. They do not want Joe Soap public wondering willy nilly through it.

 

The sad part, is what I don't see. I don't see people sitting down and talking. All the farmers I know, who actually farm land and use the land, would sit down and discuss the issue. What I do see (based on the parts presented here) are landowners (note the distinction please) and race organisers all with their own reasons and agendas not wanting to discuss this.

 

And finally, as an aside, why can an access route not be made, that runs along a border, and provides access to The Ladder not be made so it minimises the impact to the "landowners" but also allows riders/public to get their ?

[Ketoorskop]

And of course only the guests of the farm have access to the ladder from top and bottom, at no charge.

A good example is the fence at the old gate which was all but destroyed by people climbing over or forcing their way through (whose responsible for the maintainence?). Which is what compelled us to put up a better, stronger fence at the new farm boundary line (with the blessing and support of Cape Nature I might add).

[Slowbee]

Someone mentioned a consortium of landowners .... who are the members of this consortium and in which cities do they live ?

 

I ask because some where there has to be a possible solution without the courts getting involved.

 

Edit: although not really sure where they stay will affect a possible solution. Possibly I am trying to judge (and very unfairly it must be said) the attitude of the owners.

[Ketoorskop]

Ok like Ketoorskop I have work to do.

 

So my thoughts.

 

One the one hand are the race organisers who are insisting they have right to access the ladder and do not need land owners permission to do this.

 

On the other hand you have land owners who are saying that they do no believe they have to give access over their land to the ladder. They will (would?) grant this access given that someone asked them.

 

Firstly, in terms of the race (if this was just about the race), I am sure Dave would just ask and it would be granted (as per that sign).

 

Secondly, the owners have shown goodwill by allowing riders through their land, but enough is enough for them. They just want someone to show some courtesy and ask permission, even though strictly according to the law it is not required.

 

However, looking at more than just the race, by asking permission, it could be an acknowledgment that the general public does not have right of access over the land to get to the ladder. This is a problem from the point of view that the Freedom Challenge is also a touring route and not just a race route. Also how many people actually want to use the ladder (put that's another issue).

 

Then there are the landowners, they do not want people wondering around on their land. They do not want Joe Soap public wondering willy nilly through it.

 

The sad part, is what I don't see. I don't see people sitting down and talking. All the farmers I know, who actually farm land and use the land, would sit down and discuss the issue. What I do see (based on the parts presented here) are landowners (note the distinction please) and race organisers all with their own reasons and agendas not wanting to discuss this.

 

And finally, as an aside, why can an access route not be made, that runs along a border, and provides access to The Ladder not be made so it minimises the impact to the "landowners" but also allows riders/public to get their ?

Thanks. Interesting comments. I can't really respond to all of it other than to say that as far as I know the organisers and owners have been communicating for quite some time without any joy.

Anyway, I guess we'll just have to see how things develop. (now get some work done! )

[Slowbee]

A good example is the fence at the old gate which was all but destroyed by people climbing over or forcing their way through (whose responsible for the maintainence?). Which is what compelled us to put up a better, stronger fence at the new farm boundary line (with the blessing and support of Cape Nature I might add).

 

Ketoorskop, my apologies if my tone is being read as aggressive, it is not meant like that at all. I understand your view point as we have ben in the same situation before when we owned a farm.

 

If people were climbing over the fence, why not put in a gate ? Why not put a wooden ladder over the fence ?

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