Fake / Counterfeit Bikes & Components: News and how to spot them

[Matt]

Do you really expect the rest of us to sit around and suck up the rubbish that gets typed around geometries.

When a post or a person like that gets corrected, it's in the interest of everyone to show them the error of their ways.

There is enough bad advice on this forum already, whether you like it or not.

 

Of course not. But I do expect that with the highlighting of an error of their ways some further insight will be offered unpacking this and explaining for the benefit of others rather than a snide and inciting remark. And this goes for many people, not just this example.

[Matt]

You are being fair.

But why correct someone who simply only understands that a head angle has a certain degree forgetting the fact that BB height, chain stay length, top tube length, seat tube angle all have an effect on the feel of the bike.

 

Simply put... this is why:

 

Of course not. But I do expect that with the highlighting of an error of their ways some further insight will be offered unpacking this and explaining for the benefit of others rather than a snide and inciting remark. And this goes for many people, not just this example.

[fandacious]

You are being fair.

But why correct someone who simply only understands that a head angle has a certain degree forgetting the fact that BB height, chain stay length, top tube length, seat tube angle all have an effect on the feel of the bike.

 

I'm all for learning and am the first to admit that what I know about geometries et al is dangerous. I know its a pain, but its really cool when someone takes the time to spell it all out (explain like i'm five)

[Wyatt Earp]

Of course not. But I do expect that with the highlighting of an error of their ways some further insight will be offered unpacking this and explaining for the benefit of others rather than a snide and inciting remark. And this goes for many people, not just this example.

 

Accepted.

But whilst we are here and in the open topic, I would like to make note that Azonic has done very little in terms of posting in line with the topic itself.

All he has done thus far is that he keeps running as a defense attorney for chines products.

Once again ,the chinese threads exist elsewhere on the hub, so if he could be so kind as to stop trying to sidetrack the topic with every post.

[rouxtjie]

Not to come across as snobbish, but I will say this.

They are not buying Chinese because they want different, they are doing it because (a) they perceive it to be better value for money (same thing at a better price, in their minds) or ( B) they simply don't have the funds.

If one really wanted something different, there is a plethora of options out there, albeit at big $$$$$

100% correct, and no, I don't perceive it as snobbish, just the truth, if you buy a chinese frame, part of the need is that it has to be cheap, fact....I used different in the context of they want it because it satisfies a different need not in the context of they are spectacularly unique.

 

The need for me was a light carbon frame at a cheap arse price that rides like a highball. I don't care about backup, I don't care about brand. Carbon for me is a means to an end as a frame material, its light and stiff but I won't spend big money on it, it does nothing for me...everyone is different here, some like boobs, some like arse, some like blondes, some like redheads. I will however spend money on a frame that is handmade in the US by someone with a dog called rover, a bond, 2.5 kids and probably rides the bikes himself...the more personal the frame, the more I am prepared to pay. These frames are typically not the stiffest and definitely not the lightest...but that is what tickles me. Which is why I am currently negotiating with Tom from Vassago for a black label VerHauen....so technically I will fall into the first bracket, if mine breaks tomorrow, I will try and get a replacement from them, knowing that it will be a bit of admin, but I knew that when I signed up for one.

[Matt]

Many of the off-topic / side tracking comments have been removed already and so far there has been some valuable input and healthy discussion on what constitutes a fake in legal terms.

 

Let's get back to that and a note to everyone:

 

- Refrain from personal remarks and inciting comments

- Read the opening posts to understand the context of this discussion before jumping in

- This discussion is about fakes / counterfeits specifically. Please refer to the existing threads for commentary and discussion about unbranded Chinese imports.

[forkie]

where does Grey imports fit into this discussion?

[Wayne Potgieter]

where does Grey imports fit into this discussion?

UH OH.

 

Hier kom ***.

[Guest JPC]

where does Grey imports fit into this discussion?

you say grey and Wayne appears.. ITS LIKE MAGIC!

[Wayne Potgieter]

you say grey and Wayne appears.. ITS LIKE MAGIC!

My bull**** meter warned me,

[Erroli8a8]

Grey imports are not fake, they are the real deal. Warrenty and backup support is now the question.

 

It is then up to the LBS and or agent wether they will honour the warranty or not.

 

i would not honour the warrenty as i did not make profit on the sale and i would loose money with the warrenty. Personal preference.

[Chro Mo]

everything possible should be done to protect those who may be vulnerable when it comes to fake/counterfeit goods - most notably newbies.

 

in this respect, this thread should be required reading for hub noobs.

[Hennie VR]

where does Grey imports fit into this discussion?

 

I'd say it forms part of fake/counterfeit products

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_import

[forkie]

Grey imports are not fake, they are the real deal. Warrenty and backup support is now the question.

 

It is then up to the LBS and or agent wether they will honour the warranty or not.

 

i would not honour the warrenty as i did not make profit on the sale and i would loose money with the warrenty. Personal preference.

so long as the buyer is aware that he is buying something without a proper warranty

[Erroli8a8]

@ Hennie.

 

the product or bike was manufactured by the OEM so it can not be a fake.

 

the Grey normaly means that the purchase point was not from your local supplier, normaly within your own country, but from abroad.

 

you could push this to say that you have a grey product when you buy it online from ctn and you are in JHB, you did not buy it from your local supplier so it could be classed as "Grey".

 

another very thick grey area.

 

if you buy a bike from the factory or HQ in the USA whilst on holiday and have it shipped to SA it is not a fake but it is "grey"

[Erroli8a8]

so long as the buyer is aware that he is buying something without a proper warranty

 

that is 100%,