Road Tubeless

[dommisse]

So I bought some new rims - now to put some tires on these bad boys :-)

 

I see more and more road tubeless tires -

1. can I put these on any rim?

2. what are the advantage(s)? (weight / puncture resistance?)

 

If not tubeless what?

1. Catorskins

2. GP4000S

3. An other

Edited August 23, 2013 by dommisse

[Helpmytrap]

I assume you're talking about tubulars or "tubbies"? Normal rims are clincher and the two tyres are not interchangeable. Below are the two cross sections.

Tubbies are lighter (but not really because you need to carry a spare tyre in your pocket for in case you get a flat) and are quite a bit more expensive for tyres. They are okay for racing but definitely not training considering our road conditions.

Normal clinchers are heavier but are much easier to repair when you get a flat, you just replace a tube...

As for puncture resistance, they are probably on par with one another and I suppose it also depends on your luck.

 

http://jamesonking.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/tubular-vs-clincher-rim.jpg

[BMXER]

Tubeless are a real good option on the road. Sudden flats are reduced.

[BMXER]

Tubeless are a real good option on the road. Sudden flats are reduced.

[Thomo]

He may in fact mean road tubeless.

I'm not too sure about the "more and more" you refer to dommisse.

I think road tubeless is still rather limited and expensive, and also requires a compatible tubeless wheel.

Which wheels did you get.?

Are they tubeless.?

Otherwise stick to a reputable clincher tyre.

The Conti's you mention are good as are most other high end tyres (Michelin, Vittoria etc).

[dommisse]

I assume you're talking about tubulars or "tubbies"? Normal rims are clincher and the two tyres are not interchangeable. Below are the two cross sections.

Tubbies are lighter (but not really because you need to carry a spare tyre in your pocket for in case you get a flat) and are quite a bit more expensive for tyres. They are okay for racing but definitely not training considering our road conditions.

Normal clinchers are heavier but are much easier to repair when you get a flat, you just replace a tube...

As for puncture resistance, they are probably on par with one another and I suppose it also depends on your luck.

 

http://jamesonking.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/tubular-vs-clincher-rim.jpg

nope not tubbies - like MTB tubeless but for road bikes - see them more and more

http://www.cwcycles.co.za/product/hutchinson-fusion-3-tubeless-road?quicktabs_1=1#quicktabs-1

[TK-Sp3cialiSt]

To use Tubeless on road rims, you need specific road tubeless rims, what make and models rims did you get?

 

Just as with mountain bikes, using tubeless allows you to ride with lower pressures and makes for a slightly more comfortable ride. It will also reduce the risk of snake bite punctures as there is no tube to pinch. The down side is that the rims are slightly heavier due to their composition and replacement of spokes/nipples is quite difficult.

[Helpmytrap]

Should You Go Tubeless?

Within the cycling industry, some companies have fully committed to road tubeless with multiple models while others dispute the claimed advantages. There are divergent opinions on BICYCLING’S test staff, too. Read on to decide if this new technology is for you

Pros Cons

Flat Protection

Anecdotal evidence from our testers suggests that tubeless systems incur fewer flats than tubes. But, current road tubeless tires are thicker and heavier than high-end, nontubeless clinchers, making a comparison difficult. Also, almost all of our riders use sealant inside their tubeless tires, but not in their tubes. Still, we’ve found that road tubeless is a solid choice for rough pavement and gravel roads.

Limited Selection

There are currently 25 tubeless road wheels and 10 tires on the market. More options are on the way, but nothing like the breadth of products available for cyclists riding standard clinchers. Only one tubeless tire is wider than 23mm (Hutchinson Intensive, a narrow 25c) and just two carbon wheelsets—Corima’s Aero+ Tubeless (also sold as the Hutchinson RT1) and Mad Fiber’s clincher.

Lower Pressure

Road tubeless was designed to work at lower pressures than most road clinchers. Hutchinson, which developed road tubeless with Shimano, recommends that cyclists use as much as 13 psi less than they would run in a tube. Running less pressure means the ride quality will improve; some riders claim the ride is as smooth as a tubular tire. Lower pressure also boosts traction when cornering and braking, because softer tires stick to the ground better. But some claim that the ride isn’t as supple as high-quality, traditional tubulars or even the best open clinchers.

More Maintenance

Working with road tubeless wheels and tires isn’t as simple as handling a regular clincher. You have to be patient when working stiff beads on and off rims—a process that often requires soapy water. You have to be careful about choosing tire levers, repairing punctures, and installing valves, rim tape, and strips. You also need an air compressor to properly install many tires. You have to remember to refill the tire with fresh sealant every few months—and if the sealant can’t fix a puncture out on the road, the repair is much more time-consuming and complicated.

Security

Hutchinson says that its road tubeless tires, built with no-stretch carbon beads, cannot roll off the rim, but we’d hate to be the unlucky ones to disprove this claim. Assuming Hutchinson is right, the tire will stay on the rim should you flat.

Sloppy

If you ditch tubes, you should use sealant. But putting it into the tire can be messy, and inserting a tube in the event of a bad cut will be even messier. You’ll also need to strip the old goop from the rim when it’s time to add new sealant.

 

OUR TAKE

Switching to tubeless won’t save you a lot of weight the way swapping to tubulars can, and setup and maintenance are a little harder than normal. Once everything is together, the system requires a little more vigilance, but and the ability to run lower pressure offers a smooth ride and good traction. We don’t foresee tubeless exponentially gaining popularity until a more varied lineup of wheels and tires is available—especially lighter, more aerodynamic wheels and fatter, lighter tires with more efficient casings. Eventually, we could see tubes relegated to jersey pockets and seat bags, coming out only when a tubeless tire fails catastrophically.

 

How Does Tubeless Compare?

 

Lab tests comparing tubeless road tires with standard clinchers have not been conclusive—perhaps partly because they’ve been conducted in a lab instead of out in the real world. The only consistent finding we can draw from existing studies is that companies making and selling tubeless products find them to have lower rolling resistance than tires with tubes. Companies not on the bandwagon say those claims are bunk. To help form our own opinion, we performed one of the oldest evaluations in the cycling industry—a roll-down test—on tubeless tires from Hutchinson and Maxxis, comparing them to a standard tire from Michelin. It was a basic experiment: Starting from a dead stop at a specific spot on a hill, we coasted down until the bike stopped, then measured the distance traveled and quantified speed via GPS. We controlled as best as we could variables such as rider and position and used equal pressure (100 psi, front and rear) on the same wheels (Giant P-SLR-1) mounted on a Pinarello Prince test bike. We completed all testing in a short time span to minimize any effect from changing weather and did six trials with each combination to try to average out variables beyond our control, such as gusts of wind.

Tire Distance

(meters) Average

Speed

(Km/H) Maximum

Speed

(Km/H) Michelin Pro4 Service Course w/ latex tube 200.05 21.35 34.20 Hutchinson Fusion 3 RT 195.63 21.28 33.54 Maxxis Padrone 194.03 21.26 33.54 Michelin Pro4 Service Course w/ butyl tube 193.99 20.68 33.18

 

 

Conclusion

Although we don’t advise that you consider the results of our limited test completely conclusive, we think the broader findings are interesting and more than likely reflect real-world use: With a latex tube, a top-of-the-line clincher was fastest; the tubeless tires were grouped tightly, reflecting, we believe, the current lack of variety in products; heavier butyl tires with clinchers were the slowest combination; and, most significantly, the differences in speeds are not yet so great that a rider can’t compensate for it in other ways.

 

http://www.bicycling...beless?page=0,0

Edited August 23, 2013 by Helpmytrap

[dommisse]

He may in fact mean road tubeless.

I'm not too sure about the "more and more" you refer to dommisse.

I think road tubeless is still rather limited and expensive, and also requires a compatible tubeless wheel.

Which wheels did you get.?

Are they tubeless.?

Otherwise stick to a reputable clincher tyre.

The Conti's you mention are good as are most other high end tyres (Michelin, Vittoria etc).

got Dura Ace rims - not sure if they are compatible - most likely NOT

[Helpmytrap]

Sorry, the formatting didn't come out right.

[dommisse]

can always trust on Hub guys to give me the low down - thanks!

I will stick to the normal clinchers for now

[Tankman]

To use Tubeless on road rims, you need specific road tubeless rims, what make and models rims did you get?

 

Not true, I have successfully converted normal Easton EA90's into tubeless using yellow Stans tape and tubeless valves. Just like you would any old mtb rim. Works a charm!

 

The tires are the problem, they are expensive and choices are limited.

Last time I tried, I could only get Hutchinson or Michelin tires at around R800 to R900 a pop! (I would rather ride tubbies for that price!)

Also would not use Gatorskins or GP4000's or any other tires that are not Tubeless specific, their sidewalls are not as strong as tubeless versions.

 

I'm not too sure about the "more and more" you refer to dommisse..

 

Think what he was trying to say is that more and more manufactures are bringing out tubeless versions of the standard rims. Easton, Shimano, Fulcrum, etc, they all have tubeless wheel sets available now. But still does not seem that common amongst us!

[fandacious]

What are the advantages of road tubeless? The only advantage of MTB tubeless is avoiding pinch flats. I run 0.6bar @ the back and 0.8 in the front. If I do that with tubes I'll get pinch flats in the first 10mins.

 

On a road bike however, I pump to 9bar, so theres no chance of getting a pinch flat, even with tubes

[Bike Mob]

Road Tubeless is Great!

 

There are common misconceptions above in most other posts - I have used Road Tubless for over two years:

 

Most standard wheels and rims are convertible to tubeless just like a mtb rim - tape and valve system.

Yes some manufacturers make tubeless ready rims - that's a plus.

You must use tubless specific tyres - the secret is in the bead - its tighter and non stretchy so they don't blow off, and sidewalls are thicker.

 

Fandacious the reason we run lower pressure in mtb tyres is for rolling resistance and grip as well as comfort - The same rule applies on the road - pinch flats occur when you push this envelope.

 

The MAJOR plus is that sealant will seal those tiny thorn and fine wire punctures that you only see in your tube when you hold it underwater - the annoying slow leak - on tubeless you never know they happened. As well as a slower complete evacuation and harder sidewall combo that reduces the likelihood of a crash if you cut a tire.

 

You can still put in a gaitor and tube if you have a cut.

 

You can also repair your own road tubeless tyres by patching them on the INSIDE, for slightly bigger holes that wont seal I use a lezyne patch inside and a drop of Superglue on the outside.

[fandacious]

The MAJOR plus is that sealant will seal those tiny thorn and fine wire punctures that you only see in your tube when you hold it underwater - the annoying slow leak - on tubeless you never know they happened. As well as a slower complete evacuation and harder sidewall combo that reduces the likelihood of a crash if you cut a tire.

 

so the only real advantage is no slow punctures. But I anyways use slime in my road tubes.

 

I guess the other advantage is the slight weight saving of not having tubes

[Helpmytrap]

What are the advantages of road tubeless? The only advantage of MTB tubeless is avoiding pinch flats. I run 0.6bar @ the back and 0.8 in the front. If I do that with tubes I'll get pinch flats in the first 10mins.

 

On a road bike however, I pump to 9bar, so theres no chance of getting a pinch flat, even with tubes

Are you sure you pressure gauge is right? Anything less than 1bar on the front on a 2.25 tyre and I start knocking the rim on rocky sections and I'm a 61kg lightweight.