Mojoman Posted January 14, 2014 Share What paperwork would you need for trails, I assumed there would be: Landowner contract/agreement (covering use, length of time, safety etc)User IdemnityLandowner Idemnity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipV Posted January 14, 2014 Share Mojo, contact Meurant Amarider, they will be able to help you with all of this and stuff you did not even think of.http://www.amarider.co.za/ Cassie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojoman Posted January 16, 2014 Share Thanks Philip, at this stage we will be making use of a lawyer who has offered his services to get us going as so far there is no funding for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelhicks Posted January 16, 2014 Share if it comes to it you may need to file an Environmental Management Plan with the Dept of Environmental Affairs. We had to do this for Cascades - and its a F-ing mission! ... Most trails are built once Land-owner consent is giving - this is given once route plans, indemnities for trail use, and all other legal mumbo-jumbo have been sorted out. Main thing to get right are your indemnities to cover the user and the land owner! (Deon) and Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojoman Posted January 16, 2014 Share if it comes to it you may need to file an Environmental Management Plan with the Dept of Environmental Affairs. We had to do this for Cascades - and its a F-ing mission! ... Most trails are built once Land-owner consent is giving - this is given once route plans, indemnities for trail use, and all other legal mumbo-jumbo have been sorted out. Main thing to get right are your indemnities to cover the user and the land owner!Thanks, the landowners have a lot of concerns at this stage and its a proper slow process! I think having some legal paperwork would make them all a lot happier and easier to convince of the benefits to the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelhicks Posted January 17, 2014 Share Yes it will - but just remember that with Legal often comes Environmental law ... if this happens ... good luck ... the Cascades EMP was pretty costly (10 to 20k - if i remember) ... If you will be building trails on specific land within 30m of a water course etc, you then need a water "use" licence i think it is ... and this is another nightmare ... This even includes just crossing a water course with a Bridge ... Anyway - i think legal is a good way to go about it as if the Environmental guys want to get nasty they can slap a BIG fine on the land owner for not adhearing to the legislation. However - if you are going to build in a currently operational plantation (like Cascades or Jonkers etc) then there are ways around the Environmental legal side as this land is disturbed land and if you can be seen to be "rehabilitating" it then Enviro will love you - but chat to the lawyer about this too,,, So from this aspect as well as the indemnity side - the council of a legal professional will be worth the cost in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelhicks Posted January 17, 2014 Share So if its out of the way - try and keep it under the radar ... just get the indemnity side of legal done and get land owner consent - but make them aware of the potential for Enviro costs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted January 17, 2014 Share As Nigel says, the indemnity side is the single most important thing, once landowner consent is given. But - in order to get the indemnities in place, you need to jump through a few hoops. One of these hoops is made a bit easier by way of becoming affiliated with AMARider - who have their own indemnity insurance in place, specifically for trails. But for this to happen, your trails need to be rationalized, designed within certain guidelines (IMBA) and categorized according to their difficulty. And, I am afraid, a simple "I waive all rights" type of indemnity that you have people sign upon entering the land will NOT hold up in court when someone ends themselves on a jump that wasn't built correctly / within the scope of the trail. Best chat to Nige (as he's posted here) and Meurant. Meurant goes all over the country trying to do this exact thing for other trail centres, who need to get their affairs in order. He is a wealth of knowledge on the matter, and can assist you properly. Good luck bro! Cassie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojoman Posted January 17, 2014 Share So if its out of the way - try and keep it under the radar ... just get the indemnity side of legal done and get land owner consent - but make them aware of the potential for Enviro costsReading this is making me a bit concerned. The guys around here are not going to be interested in allowing us to use their land if there is the potential for environmental assessments and the possibility of fines. Its taken a fair bit of persuasion and 'pleading' just to get a couple of landowners to consider and agree to the idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJR Posted January 17, 2014 Share I hope some of the moaner / groaner / I'll build what I want / where I want types, read this post too...... Captain Fastbastard Mayhem and (Deon) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cellar Posted January 17, 2014 Share I hope some of the moaner / groaner / I'll build what I want / where I want types, read this post too...... Interesting point. How does this fit into things: https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/134578-spruit-spade-work/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted January 17, 2014 Share Interesting point. How does this fit into things: http://www.thehubsa....uit-spade-work/ Not sure on the legalities of the spruit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cellar Posted January 17, 2014 Share Not sure on the legalities of the spruit... I wonder how many of the spade work guys there are sure of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelhicks Posted January 17, 2014 Share Reading this is making me a bit concerned. The guys around here are not going to be interested in allowing us to use their land if there is the potential for environmental assessments and the possibility of fines. Its taken a fair bit of persuasion and 'pleading' just to get a couple of landowners to consider and agree to the idea! If thats the case ... definitely contact Meurant at AMARider - and (although it will cost more) get the right advise on how to move forward with the project. ... I doubt that MOST bike "parks" in SA have been given Environmental Clearance for their trails, but as the Land owner consent is there then no one worries. The issue we had at Cascades was actually not due to the trails which were in disturbed land in plantations, but the grading and "re-vegetating" of the ope area where the finish and pits are - someone (a local resident) lodged a complaint with Enviro regarding the large-scale grading of the area - asking why a new parking lot was being built on the land ... Enviro came to check and asked us for a EMP or we would be given a fine .... What they forgot to look at was also the fact that we were "rehabilitating" the area as it had previously been disturbed land as it was previously all planted with pine and gum ... this didnt matter to them ... So then we had to complete a full EMP which included ALL the trails too ... had it not been for the big work at the bottom - Enviro and everyone else wouldnt have bothered .... So in this instance - Id say its a good plan to get Meurant involved ... as he will know the best legal positions and how to get through the Enviro process. Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelhicks Posted January 17, 2014 Share So i have just had a quick meeting with our EIA guru and under the National Enviro Management Act (NEMA) there is no legislation governing the building of tracks for non-motorised vehicle use. The Cascades EMP was triggered through the clearing of the bottom area and not the tracks. The only thing to be careful of is the cutting of tracks in virgin grasslands etc as these may be endangered and then the poo hits the fan Mojoman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted January 17, 2014 Share So i have just had a quick meeting with our EIA guru and under the National Enviro Management Act (NEMA) there is no legislation governing the building of tracks for non-motorised vehicle use. The Cascades EMP was triggered through the clearing of the bottom area and not the tracks. The only thing to be careful of is the cutting of tracks in virgin grasslands etc as these may be endangered and then the poo hits the fan Unless it's in a national park Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now