Guest Smimby Posted June 20, 2014 Share I am looking for Pillar (heard they are some of the best and best value for R's) But I can not find them online anywhere and don't feel like phoning 12 LBS's On that note, would it be ok to use Butted spokes and straight on the same wheel? For example, maybe butted on the drive side and straight on the non-drive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stringbean Posted June 20, 2014 Share Length?Evobikes has some pillar in stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smimby Posted June 20, 2014 Share 292mm290mm EVObike only have butted :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaper Posted June 20, 2014 Share try Rapide http://www.rapide.co.za/pPILLAR%20PDB1415%20SPOKES/Pillar-PDB1415-Spokes.aspx#.U6PikvmSx2E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smimby Posted June 20, 2014 Share Thanks Shaper but they only have butted spokes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Earp Posted June 20, 2014 Share Thanks Shaper but they only have butted spokes.... Why on earth would you want to build with straight gauge.Go butted drive and non-drive side and use brass nipples. gummibear and Chro Mo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatwhite Posted June 20, 2014 Share Theoretically mixing butted and non butted spokes should be avoided as the amount the spoke stretches per unit load is different. That said, the difference will be small and I'm not sure how much it will be an issue practically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smimby Posted June 20, 2014 Share Why on earth would you want to build with straight gauge.Go butted drive and non-drive side and use brass nipples. Tried to send you a pm, but can not.....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatwhite Posted June 20, 2014 Share Theoretically mixing butted and non butted spokes should be avoided as the amount the spoke stretches per unit load is different. That said, the difference will be small and I'm not sure how much it will be an issue practically. Just to clarify, Butted one side and non butted the other side is less of an issue, but don't mix on one side. But as wyatt said - if you can rather go butted both side. You sacrifice a little lateral stiffness, but durability is massively improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smimby Posted June 20, 2014 Share I had butted Pillar fitted to a 142x12 powertap and now it feels like it just flexes to much.... on my other bike I have a powertap (qr) on a 355 rim(simular to crest) and love the stiffness..... The 355 has straight spokes, and on my Niner I have straight spokes on Hope II hub and love the stiffness of the wheel Hence the only thing I could see that was different is the butted spokes....hence I want to go straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smimby Posted June 20, 2014 Share Just to clarify, Butted one side and non butted the other side is less of an issue, but don't mix on one side. But as wyatt said - if you can rather go butted both side. You sacrifice a little lateral stiffness, but durability is massively improved. It is that Lateral stiffness that I lost and dont like.....a softtail feels loose as it is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted June 20, 2014 Share I am looking for Pillar (heard they are some of the best and best value for R's) But I can not find them online anywhere and don't feel like phoning 12 LBS's On that note, would it be ok to use Butted spokes and straight on the same wheel? For example, maybe butted on the drive side and straight on the non-driveDon't bother with the brand name of the spokes. As long as you buy some of the good brands such as Sapim, DT, Wheelsmith or Pillar, things are equal. Secondly, in sports cycling there is never a case where you would spec straight-gauge spokes or single butted spokes. The only exception is when you have a supply problem and you have to cut and thread very short spokes such as for 80mm deep section wheels laced radially. Thirdly, there is never a case to be made for spec'ing a mix of straight-gauge and butted. If you want a quality, durable wheel, it will be double-butted all-round. Lateral stiffness of a wheel is almost never an issue. A little bit of flex cannot be felt whilst riding and to get an idea of just how little wheels do flex is use, consider a road bike wheel with 1mm clearance between brake pad and rim. How often have you done some maneuver where the rim touches the brakes? Similarly on MTB wheels. Is there any evidence that your tyre is scraping the inside of the fork or chainstay? 29er wheels are very weak due to their 10% increase in size over 26" wheels, yet same spoke count and rim profiles as their stronger counterparts. Should you spec' say 1.5mm spokes for this wheel and insist on the lightest rim and reduce the spoke count to 28, then you will experience flex to the point where they will scrape the fork and chainstay, yet you can't feel the flex when riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted June 20, 2014 Share Don't bother with the brand name of the spokes. As long as you buy some of the good brands such as Sapim, DT, Wheelsmith or Pillar, things are equal. Secondly, in sports cycling there is never a case where you would spec straight-gauge spokes or single butted spokes. The only exception is when you have a supply problem and you have to cut and thread very short spokes such as for 80mm deep section wheels laced radially. Thirdly, there is never a case to be made for spec'ing a mix of straight-gauge and butted. If you want a quality, durable wheel, it will be double-butted all-round. Lateral stiffness of a wheel is almost never an issue. A little bit of flex cannot be felt whilst riding and to get an idea of just how little wheels do flex is use, consider a road bike wheel with 1mm clearance between brake pad and rim. How often have you done some maneuver where the rim touches the brakes? Similarly on MTB wheels. Is there any evidence that your tyre is scraping the inside of the fork or chainstay? 29er wheels are very weak due to their 10% increase in size over 26" wheels, yet same spoke count and rim profiles as their stronger counterparts. Should you spec' say 1.5mm spokes for this wheel and insist on the lightest rim and reduce the spoke count to 28, then you will experience flex to the point where they will scrape the fork and chainstay, yet you can't feel the flex when riding.PS: If you want spokes in a specific length, contact Dave Marshall here on the Hub. He has one of only three spoke cutting machines in ZA and he keeps a stock of black and silver spoke blanks that can be cut to almost any size other than ultra shorties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smimby Posted June 20, 2014 Share Hi Johan Thanks VERY much for this.....maybe it is the way the wheel was build.....that gave it more flex feeling. Thanks for the info....really appreciate it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatwhite Posted June 20, 2014 Share Don't bother with the brand name of the spokes. As long as you buy some of the good brands such as Sapim, DT, Wheelsmith or Pillar, things are equal.......... Lateral stiffness of a wheel is almost never an issue. A little bit of flex cannot be felt whilst riding and to get an idea of just how little wheels do flex is use, consider a road bike wheel with 1mm clearance between brake pad and rim. How often have you done some maneuver where the rim touches the brakes? Similarly on MTB wheels. Is there any evidence that your tyre is scraping the inside of the fork or chainstay? 29er wheels are very weak due to their 10% increase in size over 26" wheels, yet same spoke count and rim profiles as their stronger counterparts. Should you spec' say 1.5mm spokes for this wheel and insist on the lightest rim and reduce the spoke count to 28, then you will experience flex to the point where they will scrape the fork and chainstay, yet you can't feel the flex when riding. I agree with the mechanic of all the stuff you say and also add that larger diameter wheels also result in more acute angles between the spokes on the two sides of the wheel when using the same hub, which also result in reduced lateral stiffness. That said, you quite often see (and can feel) lateral movement on low spoke count wheels - you do see wheels catching brake blocks on out of saddle efforts. I stress this is low spoke count and by that I mean typically 24 and under (although your example with 1.5mm centre section with 28 spokes on a 29er would also be pretty horrid) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Earp Posted June 20, 2014 Share I agree with the mechanic of all the stuff you say and also add that larger diameter wheels also result in more acute angles between the spokes on the two sides of the wheel when using the same hub, which also result in reduced lateral stiffness. That said, you quite often see (and can feel) lateral movement on low spoke count wheels - you do see wheels catching brake blocks on out of saddle efforts. I stress this is low spoke count and by that I mean typically 24 and under (although your example with 1.5mm centre section with 28 spokes on a 29er would also be pretty horrid) I built myself a set of wheels for my 29'er with Hope hubs, Loaded XCM rims and Revolution spokes (1.5 butted)These are built 2 cross.This is the stiffest set of wheels I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now