MrJacques Posted July 24, 2014 Share @Raydek: Yeah, noticed that, it's called marketing Raydek 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capricorn Posted July 24, 2014 Share @Raydek: Yeah, noticed that, it's called marketing marketeering fixed Iwan Kemp, Raydek and MrJacques 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowbee Posted July 24, 2014 Share http://www.pivotcycles.com/up/editor/429black.jpghttp://bicyclebusiness.en.ecplaza.net/sitebuilder/images/giant_anthem_x_2011_frame__13451_zoom.jpglooking at those it seems the top one would take more of the impact and that the would be less force required to make the shock work. I said looks like, maybe the engineers say different. I cannot wrap my mind round how the forces would transfer through those curved bits on the shock. But the real question would be, given everything else being equal, which of those shock positions is the better one ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raydek Posted July 24, 2014 Share Also what I would like to know is the different names for the different setups, I now know the one is Maestro.... Edit..I should really learn to search before posting.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_suspension#Rear_suspension Edited July 24, 2014 by Raydek Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJacques Posted July 24, 2014 Share Maybe the vertical, for lubrication inside the shock? Maestro is basically a Virtual Pivot Point (VPP) setup. Some basics on suspension design / types: http://www.bikeradar...n-part-1-28367/ http://www.bikeradar...n-part-2-28438/ Edited July 24, 2014 by Jacquers Raydek 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJacques Posted July 24, 2014 Share If you really want to get into the technical details of suspension or just see how various designs move check out Linkage Raydek 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raydek Posted July 24, 2014 Share If you really want to get into the technical details of suspension or just see how various designs move check out Linkage LIKE THIS A LOT!! Edited July 24, 2014 by Raydek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowbee Posted July 24, 2014 Share Jacquers, hubbers know far more than google schmooogle and besides its fun learning from the hub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted July 24, 2014 Share looking at those it seems the top one would take more of the impact and that the would be less force required to make the shock work. I said looks like, maybe the engineers say different. I cannot wrap my mind round how the forces would transfer through those curved bits on the shock. But the real question would be, given everything else being equal, which of those shock positions is the better one ? Italic underline: In a zero-resistance environment, there'd be no difference in ease of compression, given equal leverage ratios. Which is why bearing / bushing technology and maintenance is so important. Yes, they have their differences in terms of how each one reacts to small bumps, pedalling inputs and so on, but for the most part the actual driving of the shock is the same. For the most part, your desired suspension design (DW Link, VPP, Single Pivot, Single Pivot linkage Driven, Four Bar Linkage, Split Pivot etc and your desired suspension kinematics would determine shock placement. Also, you need to decide which section of the frame you want to have the forces acting on, and what you want the weight distribution to do (horizontal shock means higher COG) Bold It basically transfers in a straight line between the 2 mounting points... The curvature is pretty much there solely for looks. Raydek 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted July 24, 2014 Share Oh, and Slowbee - on the top one, you'd be right. DW Link bikes are very sensitive to the small bumps, which a LOT of people like. If it were a single pivot bike, the sensitivity would also be there - it'd create a direct relation between the trail and the suspension action. Which is why, on a single pivot bike, pivot placement and shock selection play a very important role in determining how a bike responds to changes in the trail. Linkages add complexity, and are there to help re-direct forces in an attempt to limit the effect that pedalling has on the suspension's action. Single Pivot bikes generally give a lot of pedal feedback, which is why the Lockout on a Scott is so important. Linkages are also there to help create a suspension action which is "linear" or can "ramp up" - increasing the amount of force it takes to compress the shock as the bike moves through its travel. Linkages also allow for more tuning in leverage ratios, which also determine the ratio between rear triangle movement and shock movement. They also determine how much pressure is needed to move the suspension X mm under which circumstances. DW link is an example of this, with their contra-rotating linkages further enhancing small bump compliance without affecting how the bike pedals and is able to take bigger jumps and drops. In short - it's a minefield of complexity and misunderstanding (I'm sure some of what I've posted is wrong as well!) but a very, very interesting field. Beginning to wish I had carried on in my Engineering studies... Edited July 24, 2014 by cpt armpies mayhem Catatonic_Joe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted July 24, 2014 Share Oh - and Crow would know a LOT more about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catatonic_Joe Posted July 24, 2014 Share From what I've heard, the suspension on the Merida's are rated pretty crappy, and I've been hearing great things about Maestro. Personally, I found the suspension on my Merida pretty decent as my butt didn't hurt as much as it did when I rode a hardtail and it use to give me a fairly smooth ride, so as far as I was concerned, the suspension worked pretty well. So I can't wait to take my Anthem out for a proper ride to feel what a well rated suspension system feels like. dee_biker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowbee Posted July 24, 2014 Share Oh - and Crow would know a LOT more about this. who is Crow ? He sold me a bike and then disappeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowbee Posted July 24, 2014 Share From what I've heard, the suspension on the Merida's are rated pretty crappy, and I've been hearing great things about Maestro. Personally, I found the suspension on my Merida pretty decent as my butt didn't hurt as much as it did when I rode a hardtail and it use to give me a fairly smooth ride, so as far as I was concerned, the suspension worked pretty well. So I can't wait to take my Anthem out for a proper ride to feel what a well rated suspension system feels like. why have giant done away with the horizontal shock position ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catatonic_Joe Posted July 24, 2014 Share why have giant done away with the horizontal shock position ? All the Giant DS's I've seen have the shock in a vertical position, unless it was horizontal before my time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catatonic_Joe Posted July 24, 2014 Share Oh, I see it was like this before:http://sales.brick7.co.za/media/za/329001_329100/329096_272903b186fe22a0.jpg No Idea why they changed it, probably did some R & D and came up with Maestro which worked better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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