The "I hate Specialized" Bandwagon...... what's the deal?

[GLuvsMtb]

I suppose when you buy a Spesh you don't expect to have to check things like sealant in your tyres, much less know you carry a toolkit with spares....great bikes, pity about the owners? Now I'm just looking for a china who can find me no name spesh like shoes, but don't tell G.

Last time I checked I did not have to submit a cycling CV to buy any other brand either. I've seen someone on a Booth that did not know how to lock his fork, so does that mean that all Booth riders are clueless? 

[Wyatt Earp]

They have a huge R&D budget. They were early adopters of the 29 inch wheel size, carbon frames, through axles at the rear, innovated tech such as the brain damper and refined suspension design etc. If they had to suddenly become a charity that only breaks even, they would not be refining their frame designs almost annually. They offer a choice on their proprietary tech to a degree as can be seen at the Epic with the mens team riding the RS-1 and the ladies a more conventional fork

They were actually a bit slow on the 29 " wheel belief.

 

As for refining their frames, yes they make small changes and aesthetically it looks good, but at a massive price.

The FSR design is old now, but still very good, so not much change on that front except that their pivot bearings are so small that regular rear triangle build overs is at too much of a regular interval.

 

The Brain concept is fantastic, it would be even better if they outsourced the maintenance thereof, but instead they want to hold on to a monopoly .

[carbon29er]

Last time I checked I did not have to submit a cycling CV to buy any other brand either. I've seen someone on a Booth that did not know how to lock his fork, so does that mean that all Booth riders are clueless? 

Totally clueless helps, but in his defence maybe I forgot to connect the lock out...

 

It's not got much to do with CV, it's more the justification of brand excess that ultimately the consumer pays for.  My last word on this would be trying to see the link between all expenses paid trips for dealers on exotic jollies to the R&D you quoted earlier.

 

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand the link between desirability of a brand and that brand's bottom line, but you forget the link between the opportunity created by super profits for other players to enter the market. The more profitable a product, the greater the inclination of others to enter that market space. In Spesh's case, the extensive R&D paid through spending a fortune on buying the best talent and a racing team such as Songo,info is done to keep the allure going.

 

It's the most basic of marketing strategies "Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday" Bob Tasca Sr, Ford motor dealer ad Nascar racer. Doesn't make you owing a Ford a Nascar champion. More a desire to be successful by association?

[carbon29er]

They offer a choice on their proprietary tech to a degree as can be seen at the Epic with the mens team riding the RS-1 and the ladies a more conventional fork

I don't think Spesh had anything to do with the RockShox RS-1, rather it took the RS-1 and "brained" it. So it is a customized RockShox RS-1 fork, not a Specialized RS-1 fork. That apparently only Specialized can service.

 

And I dare say, RS developed the inverted design after all the work they did on the proprietary Lefty system for Cannondale.

[GLuvsMtb]

I don't think Spesh had anything to do with the RockShox RS-1, rather it took the RS-1 and "brained" it. So it is a customized RockShox RS-1 fork, not a Specialized RS-1 fork. That apparently only Specialized can service.

 

And I dare say, RS developed the inverted design after all the work they did on the proprietary Lefty system for Cannondale.

no, but if it was a lefty you would have needed special adapters, hubs, etc to fit and use the damn thing. The point is that you can elect to use the proprietary tech or not.

[Wyatt Earp]

no, but if it was a lefty you would have needed special adapters, hubs, etc to fit and use the damn thing. The point is that you can elect to use the proprietary tech or not.

G, this makes no sense.

Some Lefty forks run the Terralogic as well.

It's a damping cartridge and it's a different fork.

 

The RS1 will fit any bike, Specialized just happened to slap their brain cartridge in there .

[GLuvsMtb]

G, this makes no sense.

Some Lefty forks run the Terralogic as well.

It's a damping cartridge and it's a different fork.

 

The RS1 will fit any bike, Specialized just happened to slap their brain cartridge in there .

They don't 'force' you to use the brain tech, or any of their proprietary tech. They merely package it with their flagship products. You can buy an Sworks frame and put generics on there if you prefer with little or no fuss. Are we as cyclists better off with Spesh fiddling with things like dropper posts, shocks, forks, storage solutions etc? Most definitely as all the competing brands drive each other to innovate. That comes at a cost and the market determines what the pricing ceiling is on innovation. Knocking one brand and ignoring similar issues with the likes of Canondale, Assos, Enve etc. makes even less sense.

[Wyatt Earp]

They don't 'force' you to use the brain tech, or any of their proprietary tech. They merely package it with their flagship products. You can buy an Sworks frame and put generics on there if you prefer with little or no fuss. Are we as cyclists better off with Spesh fiddling with things like dropper posts, shocks, forks, storage solutions etc? Most definitely as all the competing brands drive each other to innovate. That comes at a cost and the market determines what the pricing ceiling is on innovation. Knocking one brand and ignoring similar issues with the likes of Canondale, Assos, Enve etc. makes even less sense.

Nowhere did I use the word force neither did I allude to the fact that one can't use anything else on their bikes.

But seeing we are going down that route, what rear shock do you want to replace the one on an Epic with ?

 

My reference was more in line with the RS1.

Specialized had absolutely nothing to do with that piece of engineering .

 

Dropper posts, shocks and forks were around loooong before Specialized started their "innovation" drive.

They were late adopters to the 29 " wheel size and they have done the same with 27.5 but I can assure you they will try and lay claim as to how involved they were with 27.5 too.

 

And I have been riding Specialized bikes since 2000 and some of their other products since 1995.

Personally I feel they are losing the plot a little wanting to lay claim to all the latest developments bicycle related.

[GLuvsMtb]

Nowhere did I use the word force neither did I allude to the fact that one can't use anything else on their bikes.

But seeing we are going down that route, what rear shock do you want to replace the one on an Epic with ?

 

My reference was more in line with the RS1.

Specialized had absolutely nothing to do with that piece of engineering .

 

Dropper posts, shocks and forks were around loooong before Specialized started their "innovation" drive.

They were late adopters to the 29 " wheel size and they have done the same with 27.5 but I can assure you they will try and lay claim as to how involved they were with 27.5 too.

 

And I have been riding Specialized bikes since 2000 and some of their other products since 1995.

Personally I feel they are losing the plot a little wanting to lay claim to all the latest developments bicycle related.

The challenge is that weed sometimes turns into grass and vice versa. Imagine Brain can be integrated with Di2 to allow for dampening to be set electronically, or take it one step further. Brain integrates with Di2 and "counts" the number and severity of "hits" the system takes to assist the user to service the fork or shock when required, take it even further and measure electronically the level and effectiveness of dampening, pressure and fluid levels to indicate to the user that a service is due or that failure is imminent. This all unfortunately come at a cost. Am I correct in saying that your criticism is that this cost is unnecessary and that other role players need to come to the party with these innovations? This may delay the innovation process, eg. the minute brain can integrate with Di2 you will see SRAM pulling finger to come up with something similar or better than Di2 (they already are, but bare with me for a while). I'm not saying Spesh would be solely responsible for any progress SRAM makes in this regard, but it would be another good reason for SRAM to get onboard. The parallel developments by Fox and Rockshox to have forks and shocks "talk" to their electronic shifting systems over time will result in a better user experience for the wider market as well. 

 

They make good shoes, helmets and gloves as well. Some will say that these are rubbish and that it only serves to complement the colour scheme of their S-Works Epic, others recognize these as good quality products that lasts. This is in fact my first taste of the brand. I had Spesh shoes and gloves long before I could afford a carbon Stumpy FSR. 

[Hairy]

no, but if it was a lefty you would have needed special adapters, hubs, etc to fit and use the damn thing. The point is that you can elect to use the proprietary tech or not.

ummmmm....RS1 runs a unique hub and axel configuration.

[GLuvsMtb]

ummmmm....RS1 runs a unique hub and axel configuration.

Go read the sheriffs comment. Thats Rockshox's fault, not Jan van Riebeeck's

[Hairy]

The challenge is that weed sometimes turns into grass and vice versa. Imagine Brain can be integrated with Di2 to allow for dampening to be set electronically, or take it one step further. Brain integrates with Di2 and "counts" the number and severity of "hits" the system takes to assist the user to service the fork or shock when required, take it even further and measure electronically the level and effectiveness of dampening, pressure and fluid levels to indicate to the user that a service is due or that failure is imminent. This all unfortunately come at a cost. Am I correct in saying that your criticism is that this cost is unnecessary and that other role players need to come to the party with these innovations? This may delay the innovation process, eg. the minute brain can integrate with Di2 you will see SRAM pulling finger to come up with something similar or better than Di2 (they already are, but bare with me for a while). I'm not saying Spesh would be solely responsible for any progress SRAM makes in this regard, but it would be another good reason for SRAM to get onboard. The parallel developments by Fox and Rockshox to have forks and shocks "talk" to their electronic shifting systems over time will result in a better user experience for the wider market as well.

 

They make good shoes, helmets and gloves as well. Some will say that these are rubbish and that it only serves to complement the colour scheme of their S-Works Epic, others recognize these as good quality products that lasts. This is in fact my first taste of the brand. I had Spesh shoes and gloves long before I could afford a carbon Stumpy FSR.

Lapier have been running electronic suspension for some time now. Let's not forspaz bought the horst link and then put a patent on it effectively bullying pet brands that were using it before into having to pay then royalties to use the system..many companies just went with another suspension design.

[Hairy]

The challenge is that weed sometimes turns into grass and vice versa. Imagine Brain can be integrated with Di2 to allow for dampening to be set electronically, or take it one step further. Brain integrates with Di2 and "counts" the number and severity of "hits" the system takes to assist the user to service the fork or shock when required, take it even further and measure electronically the level and effectiveness of dampening, pressure and fluid levels to indicate to the user that a service is due or that failure is imminent. This all unfortunately come at a cost. Am I correct in saying that your criticism is that this cost is unnecessary and that other role players need to come to the party with these innovations? This may delay the innovation process, eg. the minute brain can integrate with Di2 you will see SRAM pulling finger to come up with something similar or better than Di2 (they already are, but bare with me for a while). I'm not saying Spesh would be solely responsible for any progress SRAM makes in this regard, but it would be another good reason for SRAM to get onboard. The parallel developments by Fox and Rockshox to have forks and shocks "talk" to their electronic shifting systems over time will result in a better user experience for the wider market as well.

 

They make good shoes, helmets and gloves as well. Some will say that these are rubbish and that it only serves to complement the colour scheme of their S-Works Epic, others recognize these as good quality products that lasts. This is in fact my first taste of the brand. I had Spesh shoes and gloves long before I could afford a carbon Stumpy FSR.

pppssssstttt....keep weed out of this, we are striving for a drug free sport

[GLuvsMtb]

Lapier have been running electronic suspension for some time now. Let's not forspaz bought the horst link and then put a patent on it effectively bullying pet brands that were using it before into having to pay then royalties to use the system..many companies just went with another suspension design.

And Bill Gates 'invented' the tablet in 2002, but didn't know what to do with it. If Lapier was truly interested in doing anything beyond a concept they should have been in the market by now. Da Vinci 'invented' flight, steam engines and a host of other very contemporary concepts. If da Vinci had a Jobs or a Sinyard around we may have had colonies in space by now (probably the weed talking, who knows).

[carbon29er]

The challenge is that weed sometimes turns into grass and vice versa. Imagine Brain can be integrated with Di2 to allow for dampening to be set electronically, ...........

Actually Fox did this when developing the electronic CTD....way before anyone with a brain tried it.

[GLuvsMtb]

Actually Fox did this when developing the electronic CTD....way before anyone with a brain tried it.

now if they connect the dots and evolve it further you take the 'brains' out of the equation, but they seem content to only evolve one step beyond where their closest rival is. It is a valid approach in a cost sensitive market, but if a player can remove the cost sensitivity element and take it two or 3 steps beyond the next best alternative you get a real pull in the marketplace.

 

That creates a window for the 'brains' to take it further which over time benefits us all.