Cape Town Cycle Tour and the CSA Forbidden Races Rule

[City Cycling Athletic Club]

CSA is being selective in applying this ruling. Many events are held without being placed on the calendar (so they don't pay the event and rider fees to CSA). As an example there is regular Track racing with CSA officials at HNP , KZN and Bellville. Most of the riders will have full racing licences, yet these events are not on CSA's calendar so not sanctioned. CSA is not interested in then due to the low numbers, follow the money, the only reason they are targeting the Argus (CTCT) is due to the large field ie large fees.

 

If UCI was behind this it would be big news else ware, and while I don't doubt that CSA have a letter from the UCI, I suspect CSA may have asked for the letter based on the timing and the fact that the tension started before the date of this UCI instruction.       

'track' asked to be exempt from sanctioning processes a few years ago. all other events no matter what the size must be sanctioned but you may request relief from calendar fees and levies ie if your event is aimed 'development' such as scholars league etc  

[GoLefty!!]

I have been a licensed rider for many years and am divided on the debacle. Never used it much but renewed every year, as with my PPA membership. I have aspirations to one day get seriously fit, ride some VET events internationally and quite frankly I can do without the bad records created through penalties imposed by the UCI.

 

I see CSA's point and I see the PPA's side of the story. I have had heated dealings with the UCI and CSA on many occassions.  The UCI is a stickler and CSA are forced to comply to their international standards. PPA can upstage CSA but not UCI. For the CTCT to grow exponentionally PPA/CTCT need the UCI behind them.

 

CSA is answerable to the UCI. As I see it,  CSA is only the messenger. Should the UCI not bend on this ruling and you wish to have an international cycle career after CTCT be wary if they impose penalties as it stays on your record forever. This will affect future sponsorships, team selection etc. Teams and sponsors do not like cyclists with records.

 

As I currently see it PPA/CTCT need to  sort this mess out as their supposed victory is turning into a nightmare.

 

A particular saying might suffice. "PPA won the war but lost the battle"

 

PPA are a drop in the bucket when it comes to the might of the UCI. They could find themselves isolated from the international cycling community and that quite frankly benefits nobody. 

 

CSA could alternatively sanction only the rider and not the race. Bill each rider R6-00. I would be happy to pay that or even more for peace of mind.

 

Of course the UCI is concerned that PPA's court victory might create a worldwide precedent and that other events might opt for a similar stance, thus depriving UCI and other cycling unions from much needed income.

 

Nevertheless, all i care about is that the First CTCT complies to all international laws governing cycling. We all want it to be success - except PPA and CSA. 

 

Whereto from now lies in the powers that be, although at this stage they seem to be a bunch of weaklings. 

 

So sad when a bunch of so called educated concerns put their internal politics and aspirations above the greater good for all.

 

 

 

LOL,

 

ok if you think you have a shot at an international career then go for it.

 

CTCT is a funride it is not and does not have to be sanctioned or approved by the UCI. Get over yourself. You dream of being a tour rider then be part of CSA. Or be a realist and treat cycling as a lifestyle that does not have to embrace racing but can embrace the occasional friendly competition then PPA and its events work for you.

 

I so wish those with their head sup the UCI and CSA arse would pull it out for a second to soak up some sunlight.

[PJP2013]

Not Quite CSA could allow this to happen, they just choose to be difficult.

 

Ultimately CSA will loose, It is a 1 month ban or 50-100 CFH fine.  If they do ban say 90% of thier membership what then. Also are there many UCI races in the next month bar the Absa Cape Epic. Also what about all the other MTB races such as Gravel and Grape, J2C, Tankwa Trek, Trans Karoo, Hell and Back, Trans Baviaans, 100Miler to name a few.

 

If CSA forces the riders hand they are going to have to be consistent throughout or they are going to have serious litigation issues for being predigest.

 

Me thinks they have once again bitten off more than they can chew. 

 

Alternatively, PPA could pay the 210 000 for sanctioning, they just choose to be difficult?

[GoLefty!!]

Alternatively, PPA could pay the 210 000 for sanctioning, they just choose to be difficult?

 

 

 

they are not required to pay it.

 

But CSA, unless it wants to ban all its rides for a month to make a few bob in the short term, stands to loose far more.

[PJP2013]

And I am not required to brush my teeth but I do it anyway, why because it makes sense for my overall health.

 

By not doing this they robbing local pros the chance to race against one of the world's top sprinters. A chance in a lifetime for some of these guys. They may call it a fun ride but this has always been and always will be a race even if most people are only racing against themselves. Otherwise why bother with timing?

 

Like a previous post pointed out, sanction cost is a tax, no one likes taxes but we have to pay them irrespective of our feelings. So just pay the tax and everyone is happy. Next year increase the entry by 12 rand to cover the tax. No one will notice or care. Win Win sitaution for everybody. The way they handling it Win Lose. 

[GoLefty!!]

sorry the ball is still in CSA's court as PPA does not play by CSA'a rules. I know it will take some time for that to sink in.......but eventually you'll get it

[GLuvsMtb]

And I am not required to brush my teeth but I do it anyway, why because it makes sense for my overall health.

 

By not doing this they robbing local pros the chance to race against one of the world's top sprinters. A chance in a lifetime for some of these guys. They may call it a fun ride but this has always been and always will be a race even if most people are only racing against themselves. Otherwise why bother with timing?

 

Like a previous post pointed out, sanction cost is a tax, no one likes taxes but we have to pay them irrespective of our feelings. So just pay the tax and everyone is happy. Next year increase the entry by 12 rand to cover the tax. No one will notice or care. Win Win sitaution for everybody. The way they handling it Win Lose.

Next year split the event in 2. The CTCT pro classic that starts at 5:45am on the second Sunday of March and the CTCT that starts at 6:30am on the second Sunday of March. Sanction the CTCT pro classic and pay the R6 x #pro license holders and let the rest carry on with their separate funride. I don't mind contributing to CSA, but I expect them to at least partially execute their mandate and that they answer to their benefactors. Once they get their house in order they can come and ask again.

[carbon29er]

Alternatively, PPA could pay the 210 000 for sanctioning, they just choose to be difficult?

The High Court ruled that CSA cannot force any event organiser to apply for sanctioning of an event. Is the law not relevant at all to you?

 

R210,000 is being bandied about because it is convenient but the actual amount in question is the day licence fee of R35 which is conveniently being ignored in this instance. But pay the R6 now and you can bet the R35 plus will be required in the future,

 

And in no time we are back to CSA demanding that every ride be sanctioned. Which by law they can't do.

 

I'm also under an embargo of confidentiality so can only write what is already public knowledge.

[carbon29er]

'track' asked to be exempt from sanctioning processes a few years ago. all other events no matter what the size must be sanctioned but you may request relief from calendar fees and levies ie if your event is aimed 'development' such as scholars league etc  

All other events do not need to be sanctioned. The High Court ruling makes that quite clear. In fact no event needs to be sanctioned.

[carbon29er]

And I am not required to brush my teeth but I do it anyway, why because it makes sense for my overall health.

 

By not doing this they robbing local pros the chance to race against one of the world's top sprinters. A chance in a lifetime for some of these guys. They may call it a fun ride but this has always been and always will be a race even if most people are only racing against themselves. Otherwise why bother with timing?

 

Like a previous post pointed out, sanction cost is a tax, no one likes taxes but we have to pay them irrespective of our feelings. So just pay the tax and everyone is happy. Next year increase the entry by 12 rand to cover the tax. No one will notice or care. Win Win sitaution for everybody. The way they handling it Win Lose. 

No one will care? I reckon the charities that benefit from this event will care. If the entry price can go up why should that money not go to the charities (and PPA as they do share in the profits) rather than pay a tax, as you term it, that is not required to be paid under the laws of the country we live in?

[carbon29er]

Next year split the event in 2. The CTCT pro classic that starts at 5:45am on the second Sunday of March and the CTCT that starts at 6:30am on the second Sunday of March. Sanction the CTCT pro classic and pay the R6 x #pro license holders and let the rest carry on with their separate funride. I don't mind contributing to CSA, but I expect them to at least partially execute their mandate and that they answer to their benefactors. Once they get their house in order they can come and ask again.

This has been done world wide, RideLondon is an example. I'm believe that CSA rejected this approach in an all or nothing attitude posted earlier in this thread.

[GoLefty!!]

Next year split the event in 2. The CTCT pro classic that starts at 5:45am on the second Sunday of March and the CTCT that starts at 6:30am on the second Sunday of March. Sanction the CTCT pro classic and pay the R6 x #pro license holders and let the rest carry on with their separate funride. I don't mind contributing to CSA, but I expect them to at least partially execute their mandate and that they answer to their benefactors. Once they get their house in order they can come and ask again.

 

 

 

 

eeerrrrr hang a on a minute.......it used to be like that when that little 6 day bike ride that was named in italian ..."Giro del capo" or translated as "tour around your string clamp"

Oh that one worked out well didn't it

 

 

I have a nig problem with a hobbyist organisation being affiliated to an organisaton that is supposed to cater for professional competition. These are very different markets even if the equipment used is similar.

[HappyMartin]

Was this event sanctioned last year? Was the levy tax whatever you call it paid over to CSA in previous years? Was this years entry cheaper to reflect the money that now doesn't have to paid over to CSA? Will PPA start organizing events up in Gauteng now they are making all this money from Gauteng riders? What advantage to us upcountry riders have with a big rich PPA?

 

Please don't tell me about money into wider of the rider campaign and all that preaching to the choir rubbish. The truck drivers side swiping me on Heidelberg road this morning don't get to see that stuff. They not big on Facebook it seems..

 

Anyway it's seems mostly split along geographic lines. Cape people mostly like PPA and so they should. Massive injection of money into there organization from out of province people doing the event. Thank goodness I'm not joining the annual lemming migration anymore.

[Fly2High]

The High Court ruled that CSA cannot force any event organiser to apply for sanctioning of an event. Is the law not relevant at all to you?

 

R210,000 is being bandied about because it is convenient but the actual amount in question is the day licence fee of R35 which is conveniently being ignored in this instance. But pay the R6 now and you can bet the R35 plus will be required in the future,

 

And in no time we are back to CSA demanding that every ride be sanctioned. Which by law they can't do.

 

I'm also under an embargo of confidentiality so can only write what is already public knowledge.

If I read the minutes of the PPA AGM, then the ruling was only for PPA as an event organiser.

 

"Acting Judge KM Savage ordered that the applicant, the Pedal Power Association, does not require the prior sanction or approval of the first respondent, Cycling South Africa, or members of the first respondent, in respect of cycling events organised by the applicant, including fun rides or league rides."

Applicant was PPA ...

 

My understanding is that CTCT Trust  is the organiser of the CTCT and not PPA ..  hence CTCT Trust should apply .. but three PPA Exco sit on the CTCT Trust ..

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

If I read the minutes of the PPA AGM, then the ruling was only for PPA as an event organiser.

"Acting Judge KM Savage ordered that the applicant, the Pedal Power Association, does not require the prior sanction or approval of the first respondent, Cycling South Africa, or members of the first respondent, in respect of cycling events organised by the applicant, including fun rides or league rides."

Applicant was PPA ...

 

My understanding is that CTCT Trust is the organiser of the CTCT and not PPA .. hence CTCT Trust should apply .. but three PPA Exco sit on the CTCT Trust ..

Thing is its a legal precedent. So no event organisers need to apply for sanctioning

[GoLefty!!]

If I read the minutes of the PPA AGM, then the ruling was only for PPA as an event organiser.

 

"Acting Judge KM Savage ordered that the applicant, the Pedal Power Association, does not require the prior sanction or approval of the first respondent, Cycling South Africa, or members of the first respondent, in respect of cycling events organised by the applicant, including fun rides or league rides."

Applicant was PPA ...

 

My understanding is that CTCT Trust  is the organiser of the CTCT and not PPA ..  hence CTCT Trust should apply .. but three PPA Exco sit on the CTCT Trust ..

 

 

PPA and Cycle TourTust own the Cycle Tour. Rotary club organises the vent under the auspices of the PPA so for all intents it is a PPA affiliate event run under the guidance of the PPA which is what the ruling overs. PPA does not own any events