eddy Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Or in other words, what does CSA bring to an event by sanctioning it?I may be wrong but I think they give each funrider a receipt for R35...
carbon29er Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 But the big point you can't seem to digest is that we PPA members are not playing in your space for the CTCT. YOU ARE PLAYING IN OUR SPACE. Quote of the thread!
carbon29er Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 One answers (amongst many) to have a world champion race in the event like Mr Mark Cavendish adds value which cannot just be quantified by money / but also prestige and including international press for the city of Cape Town! Wow, really big benefit that. So CTCT entrants have to pay 35,000 x R35 and CTCT has to pay 35,000 x R6 or R10 for that? As much as I'm a CAV fan it's not money well spent. Like Discovery peeing R7 bar against the wall on one baller... I asked what CSA brings to an event through sanctioning. But it was a rhetorical question as we all know the answer. 25 pages and 402 posts and there has not been ONE benefit of sanctioning mentioned.
Icycling Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 GoLefty / Carbon29er: My father won this event when he was ±42 years of age (1st single bike on time 1984 and my age at the moment) - he has been having a dig at me for years that he still has won the Funride World champs and my best result is 10th! With all the the top riders currently not been allowed to ride - why would I not be happy - giving me a chance as I am seeded in the $ bunch to win. Why because it stinks that the organiser of the event don’t want to follow the rules of the world governing body for cycling (UCI) to allow the top athletes not only in RSA but the World to compete - they have a whole host of reasons for this and relative to the entry fee of the event the organiser can make it right by parting with a small portion on the cash, it's like less than 2% of the entry (R6 per rider)! 1994 Results WRIGHT, LLOYD 2:43:51 1/2023 M 38.08 Recumblent SMITH, WILLIAM 2:48:17 2/2023 M 37.08 Tandam DU TOIT, FRANCOIS 2:48:17 2/2023 M 37.08 Tandem HEARD, JOHNATHAN 2:48:21 3/2023 M 37.07 Tandem MACDONALD, ALASTAIR 2:48:21 3/2023 M 37.07 Tandem WHEELER, JOHN 2:53:03 4/2023 M 36.06 1st single bike / FatherMULDER, THEUNS 2:55:07 5/2023 M 35.63 DE KEYSER, JAN 2:55:25 6/2023 M 35.57 PINDER, MARK 2:55:25 7/2023 M 35.57 VAN ZYL, MARIUS 2:55:25 8/2023 M 35.57 WENTZEL, HENNIE 2:55:25 9/2023 M 35.57 VAN HEERDEN, ALAN 2:55:26 10/2023 M 35.57
GLuvsMtb Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 GoLefty / Carbon29er: My father won this event when he was ±42 years of age (1st single bike on time 1984 and my age at the moment) - he has been having a dig at me for years that he still has won the Funride World champs and my best result is 10th! With all the the top riders currently not been allowed to ride - why would I not be happy - giving me a chance as I am seeded in the $ bunch to win. Why because it stinks that the organiser of the event don’t want to follow the rules of the world governing body for cycling (UCI) to allow the top athletes not only in RSA but the World to compete - they have a whole host of reasons for this and relative to the entry fee of the event the organiser can make it right by parting with a small portion on the cash, it's like less than 2% of the entry (R6 per rider)! 1994 Results WRIGHT, LLOYD 2:43:51 1/2023 M 38.08 Recumblent SMITH, WILLIAM 2:48:17 2/2023 M 37.08 Tandam DU TOIT, FRANCOIS 2:48:17 2/2023 M 37.08 Tandem HEARD, JOHNATHAN 2:48:21 3/2023 M 37.07 Tandem MACDONALD, ALASTAIR 2:48:21 3/2023 M 37.07 Tandem WHEELER, JOHN 2:53:03 4/2023 M 36.06 1st single bike / FatherMULDER, THEUNS 2:55:07 5/2023 M 35.63 DE KEYSER, JAN 2:55:25 6/2023 M 35.57 PINDER, MARK 2:55:25 7/2023 M 35.57 VAN ZYL, MARIUS 2:55:25 8/2023 M 35.57 WENTZEL, HENNIE 2:55:25 9/2023 M 35.57 VAN HEERDEN, ALAN 2:55:26 10/2023 M 35.57
GoLefty!! Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 99% of ctct entrants think Cavendish is a shopping mall. Your move
Icycling Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Wow, really big benefit that. So CTCT entrants have to pay 35,000 x R35 and CTCT has to pay 35,000 x R6 or R10 for that? As much as I'm a CAV fan it's not money well spent. Like Discovery peeing R7 bar against the wall on one baller... I asked what CSA brings to an event through sanctioning. But it was a rhetorical question as we all know the answer. 25 pages and 402 posts and there has not been ONE benefit of sanctioning mentioned.The 2nd reason Carbon29er the reason for including the results of 1984 - well this is what made the event and still hold value! The ability for a avg working class person (I used my father as the example) to compare themselves against the pros of the day - you will see names like the late Alan van Heerden in the results along with Hennie Wentzel. If you don’t know the history of cyclist look these names up you will see they were the top pro’s in RSA at the time. In fact Mr van Heerden won the longest stage of the Giro in 1978 off the top of my head under another name as been a RSA passort holder he could not ride the event due to apartheid! Take away the Pro’s for a number of the avg working class person the meaning of riding the event has been taken away i.e their chance of comparing their time against the best riders in RSA!
Icycling Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Ps:I don't think he ggets it...Don't judge my intelligence by your standards!!! hahaha If that was directed at myself.
GoLefty!! Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Not judging your intelligence, just your refusal to see the world from the other side.
Icycling Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Not judging your intelligence, just your refusal to see the world from the other side.I am not part of the flat earth society! I know I cannot see the world from the other side as I know the world is round! For a moment I figured you were intelegent enough to be directing your comment towards carbon29er / Rob as I figure you new where I was going with putting 1984 result up and that is a maths lecturer at the then Cape Technikon who stated riding in 1983 (a year earlier) in his forties to win the biggest time cycle ride in the world betting the Pro’s at the time! That is part of what made the imagination of the event to get it too the numbers of today! Suppose this is close too reason no 3 for having Pro's ride the event!
carbon29er Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Peter, the pros can ride, CTCT has invited all the SA teams and CAV. They have entries at 6:15. It's your mob who's stopping them with their stupid demands. How can you not understand that?
GoLefty!! Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 I know where you're going with putting up 1984 History. That was an era where the sport was devoid of all the unnecessary rules and UCI ownership of rider contracts.It has no relevance to the discussion other than nostalgia. BTW I admire your dad for his achievements. He is legend. Theres plenty of other folk who also fit into that bracket too and even your achievements Peter are not too be scoffed at. however.... Our point of disconnect wrt to PPA vs CSA is that in the modern era of legalities and ownerships, hand shake agreements no lone play a role in society. Your desire for UCI rules to encroach on PPA and its members is unfair on PPA members because it is not the desire of these people to be part of what CSA offers.Now you suggest that the event owner must abide by the visitors set of rules, that we must now all devise a different set of rules that is on CSA'a terms. Sorry man but I don't buy into black mail. Yes having the Sky guys in CT will be fantastic. Sure having the licensed guys racing it up front is great for TV, promotion and all that but its a problem easily solved by the licensing organisation. What is the blocker for CSA to back down and allow the show to continue in their own interest, in the interest of the city and cycling in general as you so eloquently put it. Instead CSA chooses to hold the organisers, the PPA, the City of Cape Town to randsom ?? and you advocate licensed riders abide by these tactics. CSA owns the riders licenses, CSA can waiver their rules for the event in light of the greater good. But I fear they've gne too far down this road now and backing down will be the second loss in just over a year and that will erode their political power. They saw this coming, they used it to hold funriders to randsom. They will be the loser.
Icycling Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Peter, the pros can ride, CTCT has invited all the SA teams and CAV. They have entries at 6:15. It's your mob who's stopping them with their stupid demands. How can you not understand that?Rob - "my Mob" know that Pro tour riders (Mark Cavendish) can only ride / compete in a certain hierarchy of events - the UCI would be already allowing major concessions for a rider in this “class” to be allowed to ride in a “funride.” They - the UCI are are asking for the least amount of co operation, that I am sure is thanks to their knowledge to the standard of the event (thanks to PPA / Rotary and the likes of Mr David Bellairs and his team etc) it once was a Golden bike UCI event, but they NEED the event to be sanctioned! This is their lowest requirement for any event for just normal licences riders - not even Pro Tour riders.
GoLefty!! Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 why the "NEED" Its not insurance because the riders have personal insurance to cover themselves and the teams also cover them.The UCI itself makes concession in its own rules. at the end of the day, people only hide behind rules steadfast when they have something to hide. If not they would be at the negotiating table
Icycling Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 why the "NEED" Its not insurance because the riders have personal insurance to cover themselves and the teams also cover them.The UCI itself makes concession in its own rules. at the end of the day, people only hide behind rules steadfast when they have something to hide. If not they would be at the negotiating tableNo “Need” - NO control over their riders - have you ever seen for argument sake what riders have to do who are on "where about's" program who have to tell WADA where they will be at a certain time of day when they have chosen the window for random dope test! Cyclist / UCI is really trying to clean up their act in this regard - far more than most sport and I know it does not impact your life / affect you as already stated in the thread - I think after the LA story all cyclist appreciate the efforts put in by the UCI for this! Yes even the UCI know it’s not perfect yet. Been a PRO rider you are subject to been basically in jail - who else need to make themselves available for 1 hour of each day at a certain address except people on parole? The PRO riders are controlled in several aspect and no I cannot explain all the resoning behind this but the UCI have their reasons and yes I am sure some of them are just about plan money. But then the UCI is also a business just like PPA as also mentioned in this thread! Out of interest and I am not a MTB rider at all but I have noticed how successfully the MTB ride including the ABSA cape Epic have become and I am sure the success of the events has been because of the Pro’ riders who also participate in the events - why have you refer to it as been nostalgic when I have used an example of a simliar example in road cycling from 1984? The times they have not changed that much! Murant Botha who once served on PPA EXCO realised a long time ago his event needed to be sanction by CSA to let them grow along with most if not all of the poplar MTB event!
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