Samurai Pizza Cat Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 Saw this on FB: "Ladies and Gentleman It is with regret that i inform you that i was asked to pass on the Message that as of the 1st of March the Downhill Track at Thaba Trails will officially be closed. It will be incorporated into the other trails. CheersDave" This is rather disappointing. I only started dh six months ago, and now we have even less options in Gauteng. Time to move to Stellenbosh or PMB.
Flippa Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 My understanding was that it's being closed due to lack of use
NicoBoshoff Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 Saw this on FB: "Ladies and Gentleman It is with regret that i inform you that i was asked to pass on the Message that as of the 1st of March the Downhill Track at Thaba Trails will officially be closed. It will be incorporated into the other trails. CheersDave" This is rather disappointing. I only started dh six months ago, and now we have even less options in Gauteng. Time to move to Stellenbosh or PMB.Come live in Paarl. Cheaper and less crime than Stellies, and the best shuttle road in the Country
nigelhicks Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 As far as Dave Hogan has said on FB, it is closing as its going to be incorporated into normal trails within the park that are more sustainable. Wendell did an amazing job trying to keep it going, but had very little buy-in from the riders to help with track maintenance etc. If you only get a couple of riders a weekend at a park, those fees cant pay for the trail upkeep. Also then as its not on the CSA Nationals calendar (No Gauteng round at all) as there were a total of 30 riders last year at a National there ... its just not a feasible option. Its a pity, but often the way it is ... Even here in KZN, its the riders that build the tracks at the bike parks and then organise some compensation with the park for their time etc. It has to come from the riders ... we cant just sit on our arses all day and expect there to be a million tracks for us to ride ... I am trying to instill the rule here in KZN ... "no dig - no ride" .... Its starting to work, so lets see ... Dirt Merchant - Maybe go out to Hakahana and chat to Johann - then get a build crew together and see if you can do something there - then you can have a weekend event like i do here for KZN provincials - Enduro Saturday - DH Sunday ... But you need to have the track first
Samurai Pizza Cat Posted February 26, 2015 Author Posted February 26, 2015 Come live in Paarl. Cheaper and less crime than Stellies, and the best shuttle road in the Country I know! We joined you on one of the uplift days in December. Definitely the best shuttle road in SA, and the track is loads of fun. You guys are doing a great job there. With your hard work and the support from the landowner, Paarl is going to be fantastic in the coming years.
nonky Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 One less thing to have nightmares about...sorry for the DH guys tho.
Samurai Pizza Cat Posted February 26, 2015 Author Posted February 26, 2015 As far as Dave Hogan has said on FB, it is closing as its going to be incorporated into normal trails within the park that are more sustainable. Wendell did an amazing job trying to keep it going, but had very little buy-in from the riders to help with track maintenance etc. If you only get a couple of riders a weekend at a park, those fees cant pay for the trail upkeep. Also then as its not on the CSA Nationals calendar (No Gauteng round at all) as there were a total of 30 riders last year at a National there ... its just not a feasible option. Its a pity, but often the way it is ... Even here in KZN, its the riders that build the tracks at the bike parks and then organise some compensation with the park for their time etc. It has to come from the riders ... we cant just sit on our arses all day and expect there to be a million tracks for us to ride ... I am trying to instill the rule here in KZN ... "no dig - no ride" .... Its starting to work, so lets see ... Dirt Merchant - Maybe go out to Hakahana and chat to Johann - then get a build crew together and see if you can do something there - then you can have a weekend event like i do here for KZN provincials - Enduro Saturday - DH Sunday ... But you need to have the track first Agree 100%. The only reason the Hakahana Enduro series exist is because a bunch of riders invested their time over weekends to build the tracks. Well maybe not the only reason: Johan also had a big part to play. Except for the notice of closure, Thaba never asked for rider input or participation in maintaining or improving the track.(I might be mistaken, but I have never seen anything on the public forums or boards.)
Baaisikilist Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 He also spent a fortune on building the track for that national, and didn't get a cent from CSA.
nigelhicks Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 He also spent a fortune on building the track for that national, and didn't get a cent from CSA. Unfortunately thats the way it is ... same with the UCI .. Event hosting rights (just hosting rights ... nothing else) for a World Champs are now about 30 000 Euro if I'm not mistaken. And then you still have to put up a track and and and ... But again you need to remember that its not for the governing body to pay for the venue to build a track etc. The venue supplies all of that and makes money from other avenues as the governing body is bringing races to the venue. I work deals with the venues, so that They benefit, but we do too .. I am slowly trying to get KZNMTB Enduro and DH into this format that Si runs for the BDS ... Have a read ... its very interesting how he runs the series, and thats why it does so well ... http://www.pinkbike.com/news/interview-si-paton-british-downhill-series-2015.html
the nerd Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 The problem is... Uggh I'm not getting into it. Sad to see it go and I don't even ride DH.
chuckza Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 Indeed very very sad news . Maybe we can get a crowd together for a final farewell ride? I'm thinking 14 March (weekend after the Enduro at Hakahana), if Wendell can accomodate us. Will also give those fortunate enough to have ridden it to say thanks to Wendell for such an amazing piece of work. Please PM me if you are interested; I'll try and arrange something if there is enough interest.
NicoBoshoff Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 Just a thought. If the track is being closed to incorporate it into existing trails that to me says that the track was being underutilized and the use-cost equation didn't make sense anymore. So why was it underutilized? I have a reasonable suspicion (and that is all I have) that the reason is to do with the fact that the track was beyond most people's abilities. This is the only reason I can think why it is poorly utilised vs the other descents at Thaba. If that is the case should park managers not revisit the way they look at gravity trails on their premises? If you are a commercial interest your sole motive is profit. Without it you can love what you do till the cows come home but your doors will eventually be closed for you. So if the other trails are being used but this one isn't that says your consumers don't want to / aren't capable of using it.That's why Nigel's suggestion seems so obvious. Build a trail to cater for all but have short, cheap to maintain diversiosn for the people with greater than average testes. The trail in general can still test you, but not have seven massive doubles, 5 meter step-downs and road gaps littering it all the way down. Put a few of those on the diversions, but limit it to easily maintined features, or make them "open zones" where riders can build and maintain it themselves. Point is, 10% of riders can actually hit those lines. But they also only pay 10% of your bills. That's why the countries with successfull bikeparks also focus on Jonny the Weekend Warrior and have a few proper lines that will keep the proper riders happy. You have to serve the bigger segment of your market first before you can keep the minority happy too. just my thoughts.
patches Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 @Nico... along the lines of what I was thinking... As South African's we're huge race-ists. We need to worry less about events and races and more about just riding our bikes for fun. In the last 3 months I have ridden some awesome gravity orientated local trails (namely the St. Ives and Garden Route Trail Park Flow lines). These were built for pure riding pleasure. Not as a gnarly challenge to be used for DH race events and occasional practice sessions. So for areas (like GP) where the DH racing scene is small, "gravity lines" rather than "downhill tracks" would see more use and development of the discipline. More medium to big travel bike riders would be out there having fun. And that in turn can develop into racing if so desired. So my idea is to build said gravity line(s), fun, flowy, safe, and with A, B, C and even D options. A network of awesome trails. One of the options can be a super gnarly challenging tech line. Then when occasion arises that riders want an event, the organizers can just bunt 2 or so of those lines into a course. The 1st Hakahana enduro proved that GP (and surrounds) has no shortage of riders on longer travel bikes, interested in riding fun gravity trails. The trick is to bridge the gap (which is often just a mindset) between enduro and DH with progressive trails.
Samurai Pizza Cat Posted February 26, 2015 Author Posted February 26, 2015 Just a thought. If the track is being closed to incorporate it into existing trails that to me says that the track was being underutilized and the use-cost equation didn't make sense anymore. So why was it underutilized? I have a reasonable suspicion (and that is all I have) that the reason is to do with the fact that the track was beyond most people's abilities. This is the only reason I can think why it is poorly utilised vs the other descents at Thaba. If that is the case should park managers not revisit the way they look at gravity trails on their premises? If you are a commercial interest your sole motive is profit. Without it you can love what you do till the cows come home but your doors will eventually be closed for you. So if the other trails are being used but this one isn't that says your consumers don't want to / aren't capable of using it.That's why Nigel's suggestion seems so obvious. Build a trail to cater for all but have short, cheap to maintain diversiosn for the people with greater than average testes. The trail in general can still test you, but not have seven massive doubles, 5 meter step-downs and road gaps littering it all the way down. Put a few of those on the diversions, but limit it to easily maintined features, or make them "open zones" where riders can build and maintain it themselves. Point is, 10% of riders can actually hit those lines. But they also only pay 10% of your bills. That's why the countries with successfull bikeparks also focus on Jonny the Weekend Warrior and have a few proper lines that will keep the proper riders happy. You have to serve the bigger segment of your market first before you can keep the minority happy too. just my thoughts. Yip^ I was to lazy to type exactly what you said here. (And what Patches said in his post.) Downhill & gravity lines should be progressive. Me and me wife have very limited gravity skills, but that fact has not stopped us from riding downhill tracks in France on our AM bikes. As Nico said: The successful gravity bikeparks in the Northen hemisphere manage to cater for 90% of the riders on 80% of their tracks. Even some of the DH trails in Cape Town like Steilte and Paarl can be ridden by most riders with average skills: If you do not have the skills to do a big jump / gap just ride the option line.(And it still massive fun!) Downhill mountain biking as a sport will not grow in SA unless more Blue & Green rated tracks are built for beginners and weekend warriors.( Parents would also be more inclined to let their kids do the sport.)
Samurai Pizza Cat Posted February 26, 2015 Author Posted February 26, 2015 @Nico... along the lines of what I was thinking... As South African's we're huge race-ists. We need to worry less about events and races and more about just riding our bikes for fun. In the last 3 months I have ridden some awesome gravity orientated local trails (namely the St. Ives and Garden Route Trail Park Flow lines). These were built for pure riding pleasure. Not as a gnarly challenge to be used for DH race events and occasional practice sessions. So for areas (like GP) where the DH racing scene is small, "gravity lines" rather than "downhill tracks" would see more use and development of the discipline. More medium to big travel bike riders would be out there having fun. And that in turn can develop into racing if so desired. So my idea is to build said gravity line(s), fun, flowy, safe, and with A, B, C and even D options. A network of awesome trails. One of the options can be a super gnarly challenging tech line. Then when occasion arises that riders want an event, the organizers can just bunt 2 or so of those lines into a course. The 1st Hakahana enduro proved that GP (and surrounds) has no shortage of riders on longer travel bikes, interested in riding fun gravity trails. The trick is to bridge the gap (which is often just a mindset) between enduro and DH with progressive trails.Yip! Like G Spot in Stellenbosch: Downhillers, #dismosenduro & xc race snakes use the same trail and all of them have a blast! Land owners need to get guys like Bennett and Mr Turvey to help them plan their trails properly. Then we'll start to see a lot more gravity flow lines that can be enjoyed on any bike. ( The only problem is that the SS Hardtail crowd will be having a field day: "I rode that on my 1985 hardtail ...You do not need 160mm travel )
nolipoli Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 One of the issues I always had with GP tracks was that a small group of "Hardcore" riders would make tracks that were unrideable to the average guys just wanting to get into the sport without killing themselves. It was almost like an Ego issue. Even Helderkruin suffered at the hands of of the few hectic riders. While there was enough space to build new big features, what happened was that some of the more managele features got modified until they were really scary to normal people. This exclusive attitude has directly resulted in the lack of support experienced in Gauteng. Its a real shame, but not a surprise.
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