[Event] Bestmed Tour Of Good Hope

[Patchelicious]

Glad you asked. If the person holds the Intellectual Property of the event, and does not transfer that to ASG, it's still his event, whether you grew it by 1% or a thousand. Starting another event in the exact same area at the same time and claiming it as the original is a complete and utter misrepresentation of the facts. And it's a complete dick move.

 

The TdB since it's inception has always grown year to year. So, it's not like it was a dying event, with you bunch of superheroes sweeping in to save the day. Did you add to the event? Yes. Do you own the event? No chance.

 

So, significant sponsors brings reduced fees? Strange how your event is 65% MORE EXPENSIVE than the Tour de Boland.

IP can be bought in contracts, I'm in software and its all about IP. Just because I thought something up does not mean I own it. Just because you came up with an idea, does not mean you own the whole business....

 

An idea means nothing without a working busines model.

just think of all those good ideas that would go to waste without backers. Dragons Den is a simplistic example.

 

As far as i can see nobody is stealing anything from anybody. There was a conflict between the backers and the creator. They have parted ways.

 

So Carinus still has his event, ASG are creating a competitor.

 

We have the choice to do either.

[Skubarra]

So Carinus still has his event, ASG are creating a competitor.

 

We have the choice to do either.

 

Not exactly, ASG is claiming to own the original (just not the name) while the original seemingly still exists (so is that one a new race under the old name?). If ASG made a clean break and created a competitor things would have been much less confusing. 

[Patchelicious]

Not exactly, ASG is claiming to own the original (just not the name) while the original seemingly still exists (so is that one a new race under the old name?). If ASG made a clean break and created a competitor things would have been much less confusing.

Not from what I have read, here is a summary.

 

ASG are not pursuing any action on the ownership of TdB. They have said as much. Maybe this was a case that they didn't have much of a case, or that it made no sense getting tied up in litigation, or that they felt they could do a better job without Carinus. Whichever, doesn't really matter anymore. They are starting a new race. If we now say that Carinus owns all 5 day road events and that anybody who does a multi day road event needs his permission as it's his IP, well....

 

Here are the two options:

 

Carinus is running TdB as is albeit without a big sponsor for now. Same route roughly, point to point running under same name. Hopefully with some electronic timing next year.

 

ASG has created a new event with a new name ToGH, different format (clover from Paarl) same dates at TdB and Roulier.

 

Risky on their behalf as two similar tours already exist at that time both aimed at two different price points, but maybe they have spotted a gap and are willing to take on that risk. That's their choice to make.

 

If we start telling people that they cannot create their own events then we are no different to that we are accusing ASG of.

[Skubarra]

Not from what I have read, here is a summary.

 

ASG are not pursuing any action on the ownership of TdB. They have said as much.

 

They are starting a new race. 

 

These are ASG's words on this very same thread

 

Hi ScotC-M , it's not a new race - everything is the same - the Tour of Good Hope is everything the Tour de Boland was (same blueprint, same organisers, same sponsors, same 'vision', same PR company, same Television coverage, same pro teams, same IT support teams, UCI accreditation application, same sanctioning, same entry systems, same support, same charities, same development teams support, same traffic dept support, etc) ONLY MINUS CARINUS LEMMER (that's it) and the name (TOUR DE BOLAND)

 

If we start telling people that they cannot create their own events then we are no different to that we are accusing ASG of.

 

I'm all for competition, free market etc. But this is bloody confusing, I looked at this year's TdB and thought, I want to do this race - now I have to pick and choose between 2 parties claiming to be the same race hoping I don't pick the dud (can't see both surviving)

[Patchelicious]

Well I stand corrected. But I take it those are all the things that they brought to the original TdB?

 

ASG, perhaps elaborate a bit here?

[ASG]

Glad you asked. If the person holds the Intellectual Property of the event, and does not transfer that to ASG, it's still his event, whether you grew it by 1% or a thousand. Starting another event in the exact same area at the same time and claiming it as the original is a complete and utter misrepresentation of the facts. And it's a complete dick move.

 

The TdB since it's inception has always grown year to year. So, it's not like it was a dying event, with you bunch of superheroes sweeping in to save the day.  Did you add to the event? Yes. Do you own the event? No chance.

 

So, significant sponsors brings reduced fees? Strange how your event is 65% MORE EXPENSIVE than the Tour de Boland.

Again, we are not claiming to 'own' anything in this case (not that we think we don't have a case) - we walked away from the 'Tour de Boland' name after Carinus decided to 'fire' everyone on the event Facebook page (talk about a @$%@#$ move)  Carinus claims he owns this name and claimed he registered a company called tourdeboland (Pty) ltd which he reportedly registered recently in his own name (although it doesn't come up on CIPRO)...all irrelevant to us - by mutual consent and agreement with all sponsors and partners we're keeping what we put in the event and all these aspects most certainly was the previous '2015 TOURDEBOLAND' and will be the future TOUR OF GOODHOPE (everything is the same except the name).  Not sure how we can make it clearer.  Carinus chose to turn his back on everyone and is now developing his own event under the old name (TOUR DE BOLAND) that he claims to own - to call this IP makes no sense - just sounds impressive and like something was stolen...do you seriously suspect ASG, event sponsors and everyone that invested heavily in the tour and/or benefited from the tour (including charities and development initiatives) these past 3 years to just trod off because one person said so (ironically right at the point where the event has started to show some muscle again)...It will be interesting to see if Carinus is prepared pay back or cover the losses ASG EVENTS incurred hosting the event over the past three years or is that ASG's privilege - what rights and obligations is he prepared to accept for the last three years (if any) or does his definition of 'ownership' fall into a special category...?

[Napalm]

If we start telling people that they cannot create their own events then we are no different to that we are accusing ASG of.

 

I don't have any problem with anybody starting their own event. That's their prerogative.  What I do have a problem with, is claiming ideas as their own (i.e. the open category), and in essence saying their event is actually the real one.

[ASG]

Well I stand corrected. But I take it those are all the things that they brought to the original TdB?

 

ASG, perhaps elaborate a bit here?

Exactly - ASG brought all these things to the Tour de Boland...

[ASG]

I don't have any problem with anybody starting their own event. That's their prerogative.  What I do have a problem with, is claiming ideas as their own (i.e. the open category), and in essence saying their event is actually the real one.

It was our idea or at the very least we also had the idea and went one step further by implementing it (what does it really matter anyway)...it was never done by the previous organisers (Carinus and kie) after that 'meeting many years ago before ASG was involved' that you referred to and which obviously we were no involved in and has no knowledge of - how could we - really makes no sense how you could blame us for this?  There are many ideas by many people all the time - we just acted on our 'new' idea and invested in it.  As for your second point see our reply to your 14:38 post.

[Shebeen]

got to feel for the poor tannie doing traffic control at drakenstein municpality who has to try and work out WTF is going on here.

[Escapee..]

Someone please send me a PM when this has been sorted out.

 

I just want to ride my bike the week before the CTCT

 

Thanks

[Patchelicious]

I don't have any problem with anybody starting their own event. That's their prerogative. What I do have a problem with, is claiming ideas as their own (i.e. the open category), and in essence saying their event is actually the real one.

I think that's knit picking about one little aspect of a much bigger problem.

 

But again, doesn't matter who's idea it was. Who actually made it happen?

[Napalm]

You're talking about your significant losses you've suffered. Seeing as ASG was the only ones controlling the money in this years event, a reasonable man can ask, "How can Mr Lemmer be responsible, if you were the ones controlling the cash?"

[Napalm]

Who actually made it happen?

 

That would be Mr Lemmer, long before ASG got involved.

[Patchelicious]

That would be Mr Lemmer, long before ASG got involved.

The open category?

[ASG]

Glad you asked. If the person holds the Intellectual Property of the event, and does not transfer that to ASG, it's still his event, whether you grew it by 1% or a thousand. Starting another event in the exact same area at the same time and claiming it as the original is a complete and utter misrepresentation of the facts. And it's a complete dick move.

 

The TdB since it's inception has always grown year to year. So, it's not like it was a dying event, with you bunch of superheroes sweeping in to save the day.  Did you add to the event? Yes. Do you own the event? No chance.

 

So, significant sponsors brings reduced fees? Strange how your event is 65% MORE EXPENSIVE than the Tour de Boland.

We do have a reduced entry fee for current year entrants (R2900) - not that it's relevant to riders but to put it in perspective (accounting for VAT) we only R543 (27%) more than Carinus' entry fee (just over a R100 a day to use per entrant for a significantly bigger offering including a race village in 2016 and a potential huge saving in rider own cost by doing a 'clover-leaf' race and not travelling all over the Winelands).  Electronic timing will be standard from 2016.  Rudy Project Italy (new presenting Sponsors for the event) also offering each early-bird entrant a free helmet worth more than R2k each so should really boost the effective value to an entrant significantly.  The ASG SPORT sponsored goodie bags (we know everyone is not interested in that) should also offer significant extra value (like it did this year)....and all this before we get to all the race aspects which should be fantastic next year (so many new and exciting initiatives).  We think the TOUR OF GOODHOPE is going to offer fantastic value!