Sports Certified Dietitian Posted June 8, 2015 Author Posted June 8, 2015 Great topic! I have a question - I have been seeing a sports dietitian for the past few months and have seen big gains in terms of weight loss (specifically body fat). I am 1.82m tall and weigh 78kg. Since seeing the dietitian I have lost 8kg, but most of my muscle mass has remained untouched, the approach being to protect the muscle by taking in enough protein, through the day and especially after training. Realistically I could lose another 2 kg in fat, bringing my weight down to 76kg. However, I would like to weigh 72kg...for them hills! The only way I see this happening is by losing muscle mass - it is already clean muscle (85%), so I don't see huge gains in cleaning it up more. Would you agree that my best approach is to lose the 2kg fat and then limit my protein intake for the last 4kg? Can I expect a loss in power by doing this? I will get my dietitians opinion tomorrow morning and let you know her thoughts and suggested approach.Don't really want to tread on your dietitian's toes...but what is your fat % at the moment?
FlyingScot Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 That is a great question, and one that I am dealing with too. I am also 182cm, and my target weight by end the start of the next racing season is 72kg - 73kg... I am currently 79kg. People are often surprised by how much more they can lose before muscle performance is affected. We carry much more fats than what you can see.Go check these guys out http://www.dexacpt.com/I am still needing to go. Edit: You can also lose muscles where it doesnt matter. I used to gym a bit and did triathlons... I looked at a Tri photo from 3 years ago, and my arms/shoulders are way smaller. so muscle mass loss doesn't necessarily affect power output. I would venture and say that I think we can go well below 75kg before the W/Kg number starts being negatively affected. Go buy the latest Tour de France magazine, they have all the riders heights and weights, most of the 180cm type height guys are below 70kg. I am sure that if their power loss being that light outweighed the benefits of their weight, they would not be that light. I am by no means comparing you/us to pros but more pointing out that they would only do it if it helped them. Agree 100% - I think there is muscle mass which does not add to my cycling and it is this muscle mass that I am hoping my body will target when I train while reducing my protein intake. How does the body decide which muscle to target? Also, would it make more sense to do high intensity or low intensity? My thinking is high intensity training with water...
FlyingScot Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 Don't really want to tread on your dietitian's toes...but what is your fat % at the moment? I would appreciate your input. Currently I am 12% when using calipers and 14% when using a scale at her offices. My goal is to get this down between 8% - 10%.
Sports Certified Dietitian Posted June 8, 2015 Author Posted June 8, 2015 I would appreciate your input. Currently I am 12% when using calipers and 14% when using a scale at her offices. My goal is to get this down between 8% - 10%.Take a look at the attached file. I'd say you could drop your fat % even down to 6% safely, but I wouldn't recommend going lower than that for the most part. I'd keep protein intake optimal, thinking that you would lose lean body mass anyway, but hopefully it would be in "non-cycling muscle" that isn't being stimulated through exercise. One has essential body fat stores which are much needed, so too low a fat % isn't a good thing. What do you think?
Sports Certified Dietitian Posted June 8, 2015 Author Posted June 8, 2015 Agree 100% - I think there is muscle mass which does not add to my cycling and it is this muscle mass that I am hoping my body will target when I train while reducing my protein intake. How does the body decide which muscle to target? Also, would it make more sense to do high intensity or low intensity? My thinking is high intensity training with water...With fat loss, one can't "spot reduce", choosing where one loses fat weight. This can be illustrated with woman losing fat weight and even though undesirable (for them), they lose excessive breast size. I'd say the same applies to muscle mass, in that one can't target muscles where catabolism will occur more. However, through stimulation of muscle involved in cycling, there will be a greater chance of maintaining that muscle. I'd also keep your protein intake optimal without decreasing it. Keep the intensity of your training in line with your fitness goals.
FlyingScot Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 With fat loss, one can't "spot reduce", choosing where one loses fat weight. This can be illustrated with woman losing fat weight and even though undesirable (for them), they lose excessive breast size. I'd say the same applies to muscle mass, in that one can't target muscles where catabolism will occur more. However, through stimulation of muscle involved in cycling, there will be a greater chance of maintaining that muscle. I'd also keep your protein intake optimal without decreasing it. Keep the intensity of your training in line with your fitness goals. Great thanks - appreciate the input. All of what you have said makes sense. Interestingly the table also indicates a weight of 72kg at 6% body fat, which in my mind is my optimal weight. Which should be achievable by just losing fat not muscle mass... Just got to get my head in the right place, keep my protein intake up and keep training hard! Thanks very much!
Sports Certified Dietitian Posted June 9, 2015 Author Posted June 9, 2015 Great thanks - appreciate the input. All of what you have said makes sense. Interestingly the table also indicates a weight of 72kg at 6% body fat, which in my mind is my optimal weight. Which should be achievable by just losing fat not muscle mass... Just got to get my head in the right place, keep my protein intake up and keep training hard! Thanks very much! Pleasure. Good luck!
Sports Certified Dietitian Posted June 10, 2015 Author Posted June 10, 2015 Body composition I plan to keep this topic as short and sweet as possible. It is by no means comprehensive in nature, but will allow you to delve further (see references below and attachments) and ask any pertinent questions you may have. There are different methods for determining body composition i.e. body fat, muscle, water etc., like underwater weighing, DEXA (Duel Energy X-ray Absorptiometry), BIA (Bioelectrical impedance analysis), skinfold callipers etc. I use BIA, which can be accurate enough, especially if specific guidelines are followed prior to measurement (see sample report and measurement guidelines). They all have benefits and disadvantages, but what is important is that using one method, you are able to evaluate the change in body composition over time, thus determining if your dietary and exercise intervention is paying off. Referring to the previous section on bodyweight, it is advantageous to reduce one’s body weight or fat % to an optimal one to promote power to weight ratio and performance. Fad diets and incorrect strategies will lead to the loss of lean body mass i.e. muscle, which you need to try and avoid for obvious reasons. Probably a critical thought on this is that everybody has a set point at which their body is comfortable at. We are referring to fat % and body weight mostly here, but also the amount of lean body mass you carry. With training and dietary discipline most people can drop their weight and fat % substantially, but how they feel at that level and the degree of effort required to maintain that level will depend on the person’s make-up. Having taken my fat % down to 4% at one stage, I must say that for me maintaining it at that level would have been virtually impossible. Being lean and mean is great. The abdominal muscles stick out, the blood vessels are visible, the bike goes easier and quicker up ascents…and there are many health benefits to it as well. However we shouldn’t forget that fat is vital to life. Phospholipids (fats) make up every single cell membrane in the body. Fat insulates and protects vital organs. There are many functions related to fat in our bodies. Dropping it too low is not healthy, especially in the long term. I hope you found this useful, and next week I shall touch on…why don’t you tell me what you want me to discuss and consensus will reign?! References: http://www.dexacpt.com/http://www.bodyfatcharts.com/http://www.vitalitypower4u.com/ericfrank/nutrition-and-dieting/body-fat-percentage-pictures-of-men-women/http://www.builtlean.com/2010/08/03/ideal-body-fat-percentage-chart/http://nopainnogain-fitness.tumblr.com/post/48418878698/ditch-the-scales-make-body-fat-percentage-yourBody composition example report.pdf
cadenceblur Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 Hi, in terms of the measurement method. I have the Tanita Body Composition Scale, I assume this works on the BIA method?
Cheese Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 Must say looking at the photos I am somewhere between 13-15% and the 16-19% range with less muscle than the 13-15% guy. However always come out just above 20% when doing the Discovery Vitality Check.This year the guy testing me said that it is due to inner leg not being measured. What is your take on this. If you can comment.
Sports Certified Dietitian Posted June 10, 2015 Author Posted June 10, 2015 Hi, in terms of the measurement method. I have the Tanita Body Composition Scale, I assume this works on the BIA method?Yes, that is right. BIA.
FlyingScot Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 What is an ideal/achievable clean muscle mass percentage - looking at the report you attached I would calculate this as 71.6% (is this correct)?
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 Must say looking at the photos I am somewhere between 13-15% and the 16-19% range with less muscle than the 13-15% guy. However always come out just above 20% when doing the Discovery Vitality Check.This year the guy testing me said that it is due to inner leg not being measured. What is your take on this. If you can comment.At the moment I'd say that I'm 30% or so. Aiming to get to 11-15%. Used to be like the 11-12 dude, and haven't lost any muscle mass so it should still be there underneath the protective layer... ATM just slowly changing how early I wake up. 30 min per week - used to wake up at 6h15 and rush like hell to get showered, dressed, get the little one ready and so on to leave before 7. Now I'm down to 5h45 and far less stressed in the mornings. Doing my "12 minute workout" jobbie and aiming to get it down to 4h45 so I can go train properly in the mornings. Solid 1 hour road / IDT session then strength training. Should be far easier with that much time.
Sports Certified Dietitian Posted June 10, 2015 Author Posted June 10, 2015 Must say looking at the photos I am somewhere between 13-15% and the 16-19% range with less muscle than the 13-15% guy. However always come out just above 20% when doing the Discovery Vitality Check.This year the guy testing me said that it is due to inner leg not being measured. What is your take on this. If you can comment.What method was used to measure your body composition?
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 What method was used to measure your body composition?Vitality test uses the pincer method. Back, arms, waist / stomach.
Sports Certified Dietitian Posted June 10, 2015 Author Posted June 10, 2015 Vitality test uses the pincer method. Back, arms, waist / stomach. There could be a few factors playing a part in this. Firstly, fat distribution is different from person to person, and taking more measurements from thighs/calves, including getting an average of say 3 measurements, would certainly help. Secondly, skinfold measuring depends on the experience of the person doing the measuring. Hence it can also fluctuate from tester to tester due to skill levels and experience. If you get the same person to measure you every time, and they do it comprehensively and properly, I'd say you'd approximate a decent measurement. Otherwise I'd say have your body composition tested another way to compare results.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.