New Zealand - The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

[Wayne Potgieter]

My in laws have just been selected for the Parent Visa Category. 

Might be time to move on from NZ LOL.

[patham]

On 5/5/2025 at 5:37 PM, hayleyearth said:

In Brisbane this week again, will probably be an every 2nd week thing almost for the next couple of months.

 

Hi Hayley

I was visiting a clients offices in James Street, Fortitude Valley, and thought I glimpsed a sign to Asahi in the same office block. Do you end up there at all  - it’s literally just across the block from where my office is?

On the plus side of work travel, at least Brissie is no longer a “feels like 1000 degrees” temperature as the humidity has dropped for winter.

[patham]

On 5/8/2025 at 12:24 PM, patches said:

The Sydney Metro is amazing! Currently 52km+ of new rail. Six new architecturally astounding stations, drastic reductions in commute times, a new harbour crossing... and all built in less time than Auckland has been stuffing around with the CRL 😐

Don’t think all of Aus is as jacked up. Brisbane has seen billions spent on projects by both city council and state government, that both compete with each other and just service areas with good public transportation anyway. The costs involved to service new areas are just so high that no-one here has the gumption or funding to bite the bullet and commit to a really long infrastructure campaign, they just fritter away money on the edges of the problem.

[patham]

On 5/13/2025 at 6:44 AM, Wayne Potgieter said:

My in laws have just recently retired and are planning spending 6 months touring NZ.

I am contemplating either kitting out a vehicle with rooftop tents, awnings etc, or buying a Jayco Swan Outback camper trailer and letting them loose.

Dont know if I can handle six months of house guests

Anyone on this thread into this sort of thing?

I am not a camper at all, but here in Aus the camper trailer seems to be the weapon of choice, unlike in the RSA where rooftop tents on the double cab was supreme. Maybe less petty crime, so people are more OK with leaving a trailer at a camp site? Also free camping is not encouraged here, that might be a differentiator to NZ where I remember little camper vans parked up everywhere. In that case maybe convenience is better with a rooftop, saves trying to find a trailer park when doing a run to the nearest dairy.

[hayleyearth]

20 minutes ago, patham said:

Hi Hayley

I was visiting a clients offices in James Street, Fortitude Valley, and thought I glimpsed a sign to Asahi in the same office block. Do you end up there at all  - it’s literally just across the block from where my office is?

On the plus side of work travel, at least Brissie is no longer a “feels like 1000 degrees” temperature as the humidity has dropped for winter.

I'm with Suntory Oceania now, not in beer anymore. I was with Lion, so competitors of Asahi.

 

I flying in to Brisbane tomorrow again until Thursday.

Edited May 18, 2025 by hayleyearth

[patham]

7 minutes ago, hayleyearth said:

I'm with Suntory Oceania now, not in beer anymore. I was with Lion, so competitors of Asahi.

 

I flying in to Brisbane tomorrow again until Thursday.

Don’t mind me just bumbling along here then, misremembering all sorts of stuff. Obviously all Japanese drinks manufacturers look alike to me.

Do you at least get put up at the good side of town, ie nowhere close to the factory?

[patches]

On 3/12/2025 at 4:41 PM, davetapson said:

Speaking of investment properties - I've always hankered after a mini-commercial unit.  Doing a bit of W.A.B the other day, I investigated the really really nice units around the corner from work in Orbit Dr.

The last one that was sold went for $770k in 2023 and there are adverts to rent it from the normal estate agencies for $36k / yr.

So an immediate, real return of over 4%. 

Not that I'd want to rent it, because I want to build boats / cars / motorcycles in it.

If I was a young single bloke, I'd buy one and live in it! 

One of my colleagues has a few commercial investment properties (along with a residential or 2).

Like you say, the yield on them can be great. Additionally, the agreements typically put more on the tenants (like rates, maintenance etc).

I did consider going this route, but I don't know enough about the commercial market, especially whether the capital gains are decent or not. My plan was for a 15-20yr investment (i.e. sell to top up my retirement savings). 

On 5/5/2025 at 7:37 PM, hayleyearth said:

You can invest in an investment offer from ANZ for 4.3% garenteed for your option of time and amount. I also thought of buying a small place and renting it out and when I did the maths it was better to put the money away for now. 

Yeah, for a straight up cash investment (particularly under 10yrs) an investment property is not the best bet.

As mentioned above, we've done it for the long haul, plus no cash was required (although we did pay the deposit with savings, even though we didn't need to).

With about 60% equity in our own home, we had the leverage, so we figured we'd make that work for us.

A former colleague (and current CFO of another organisation) once put it this way.

One can save $200,000 and invest it in funds, shares, etc... but the growth is still on $200,000. Or, one can invest in property where the bank will top up the investment to $1M, and the investor can benefit from the growth on that. Yes, the bank wants their pound of flesh (i.e. interest), but the gains are still worth it. Plus banks generally won't lend $800,000 against $200,000 to buy shares or invest in funds. (And when it comes to leveraging equity, the bank will give you the whole $1M, no deposit required).

I'm no mathematician, but some rough figures:

Again, this is the rough idea. It may not account for all expenses on the property side, but at the same time, it doesn't account for capital gains tax on the investment side (which currently doesn't apply to property, but I bet in 20yrs time there will be a CGT on investment properties).

Anyway, the basic idea is there... make the bank's money work for you.

Disclaimer: patches is NOT an registered financial adviser or authorised services provider, but just some fool doing Excel sums, and his sums probably need checking 😅

Edited May 29, 2025 by patches

[davetapson]

Yeah -  I remember having this discussion with my father a long time ago - his comment was "Well, the bank ain't gonna lend you $1M to bet on the stock market, but they will lend you that against a mortgage.".

Suspect now is as good a time to buy property as any.

Although we just fixed a portion of our mortgage hours before Reserve Bank dropped the rate, so I'm not sure I'm one to listen to.

[patches]

4 hours ago, davetapson said:

Yeah -  I remember having this discussion with my father a long time ago - his comment was "Well, the bank ain't gonna lend you $1M to bet on the stock market, but they will lend you that against a mortgage.".

Suspect now is as good a time to buy property as any.

Although we just fixed a portion of our mortgage hours before Reserve Bank dropped the rate, so I'm not sure I'm one to listen to.

Don't worry, we're in the same boat. Refixed our home mortgage, and took out a new mortgage (for a rental property), all at the beginning of the month, so it dropped about 0.3% since then.

Not worth the break fee though.

As for buying, now is a pretty good time. Better stock is coming on the market, but it hasn't quite started to pickup yet, so prices are reasonable. Interest rates are a lot better than they were 12 months ago.

Rental market is down, but the right property will still get tenants. We managed to get tenants within 1 week at 10% above the rental appraisal, so it's not all bad.

[patham]

On 5/30/2025 at 7:57 AM, patches said:

One of my colleagues has a few commercial investment properties (along with a residential or 2).

Like you say, the yield on them can be great. Additionally, the agreements typically put more on the tenants (like rates, maintenance etc).

I did consider going this route, but I don't know enough about the commercial market, especially whether the capital gains are decent or not. My plan was for a 15-20yr investment (i.e. sell to top up my retirement savings). 

Yeah, for a straight up cash investment (particularly under 10yrs) an investment property is not the best bet.

As mentioned above, we've done it for the long haul, plus no cash was required (although we did pay the deposit with savings, even though we didn't need to).

With about 60% equity in our own home, we had the leverage, so we figured we'd make that work for us.

A former colleague (and current CFO of another organisation) once put it this way.

One can save $200,000 and invest it in funds, shares, etc... but the growth is still on $200,000. Or, one can invest in property where the bank will top up the investment to $1M, and the investor can benefit from the growth on that. Yes, the bank wants their pound of flesh (i.e. interest), but the gains are still worth it. Plus banks generally won't lend $800,000 against $200,000 to buy shares or invest in funds. (And when it comes to leveraging equity, the bank will give you the whole $1M, no deposit required).

I'm no mathematician, but some rough figures:

Again, this is the rough idea. It may not account for all expenses on the property side, but at the same time, it doesn't account for capital gains tax on the investment side (which currently doesn't apply to property, but I bet in 20yrs time there will be a CGT on investment properties).

Anyway, the basic idea is there... make the bank's money work for you.

Disclaimer: patches is NOT an registered financial adviser or authorised services provider, but just some fool doing Excel sums, and his sums probably need checking 😅

Hi Patches totally not a financial services person. 
 

Do you New Zealanders have a stamp duty / property tax payable on purchase? Here in Aus, that adds an extra  4 or so percent up front to the purchase price. Add in the cost of conveyance, lawyers and estate agents when you sell that’s a chunk of fixed costs that we here would need to account for. If you keep the property for enough time they dwindle in relative magnitude for sure, but if you need to sell rapidly due to changed circumstances it could be at a loss.

I have kept my spare cash to date in shares, to retain liquidity and to build up a reserve so that if plans fall apart I would not need to sell an investment property. However, it’s now probably time to take on the admin involved in purchase, renting etc. and have started researching in earnest. I’m leaning towards a single storey low maintenance townhouse that we can rent out for now, but can become a downsizer suitable for retirement  & geezerhood later on in life. With room for an e-bike of course by then.

 

[patches]

12 hours ago, patham said:

Hi Patches totally not a financial services person. 
 

Do you New Zealanders have a stamp duty / property tax payable on purchase? Here in Aus, that adds an extra  4 or so percent up front to the purchase price. Add in the cost of conveyance, lawyers and estate agents when you sell that’s a chunk of fixed costs that we here would need to account for. If you keep the property for enough time they dwindle in relative magnitude for sure, but if you need to sell rapidly due to changed circumstances it could be at a loss.

I have kept my spare cash to date in shares, to retain liquidity and to build up a reserve so that if plans fall apart I would not need to sell an investment property. However, it’s now probably time to take on the admin involved in purchase, renting etc. and have started researching in earnest. I’m leaning towards a single storey low maintenance townhouse that we can rent out for now, but can become a downsizer suitable for retirement  & geezerhood later on in life. With room for an e-bike of course by then.

 

Fortunately no Stamp Duty in New Zealand. That, combined with the fact that there's no capital gains tax in NZ, is what makes property investment so popular here.

We do still have all the conveyancing costs and that though, but the cash contribution the bank gives usually covers that (e.g. approx. $9,000 cash on a circa $1M loan).

In Aus you have negative gearing though, so that's a win for you. Here one can only offset investment property expenses (maintenance, interest, etc) against the rental income itself, not one's total income.

As for liquidity, I hear ya! We were worried about that too. We could have taken a smaller mortgage, but exhausted our savings. We chose to borrow more, but have that rainy day fund. We also have wiggle room to relax the repayments on our own home if needs be. The advice we've heard over-and-over is "pay your own home down as fast as possible, and go minimum payments on the investment".

And yeah, I can second that single storey train of thought. Both the multi-level units we were keen on buying has issues that would have been very costly to fix.

We ended up with a 1970s single storey brick & tile unit with a single garage and a bit of garden, in a decent area with good school zones (very important to Kiwis, haha). 

Could have got a new build for less, but they have very little land, and the land is what actually appreciates over time.

RE: Geezerhood plans, that's pretty much what my in-laws did. Bought an apartment as an investment 20yrs ago in a really nice part of North Sydney. When they retired a few years ago, they sold the family home, bought an acreage in the countryside and use the apartment as a 2nd "convenience home" when they need to spend time in the city, or babysit grandkids. So they've essentially downsized and upsized at the same time

 

 

Edited June 1, 2025 by patches

[davetapson]

On 5/30/2025 at 6:47 PM, patches said:

Don't worry, we're in the same boat. Refixed our home mortgage, and took out a new mortgage (for a rental property), all at the beginning of the month, so it dropped about 0.3% since then.

 

Dang, that's good going.

[davetapson]

On 5/16/2025 at 10:54 AM, Wayne Potgieter said:

My in laws have just been selected for the Parent Visa Category. 

Might be time to move on from NZ LOL.

Hey @Wayne Potgieter

If you are watching this thread at all, I have questions... 🙂

My mom was living in CapeTown in what we thought was a full service old-age place that we put her in to before we left.  

It seems they can deal with anything - apart, it seems, from dementia.

She was beginning to lose it, and was getting her card skimmed when getting fuel etc. (as well as Standard Bank stealing money out of her account, can you credit it) and basically had all her accounts emptied more than once.  

I eventually decided 'sod it', this can't continue - and got her out here.  I went back to SA, cleaned out her flat and am in the process of selling the Life Right.

Luckily I had got her a Parent Holiday visa thingy previously on which she can stay a further 17 months, taken in six month chunks.  But we need to try and make another plan to get her residence...

There is a Parent Visa Lottery - is that what you are referring to above?  Did they enter?  If so, how long did it take?

[Wayne Potgieter]

4 minutes ago, davetapson said:

Hey @Wayne Potgieter

If you are watching this thread at all, I have questions... 🙂

My mom was living in CapeTown in what we thought was a full service old-age place that we put her in to before we left.  

It seems they can deal with anything - apart, it seems, from dementia.

She was beginning to lose it, and was getting her card skimmed when getting fuel etc. (as well as Standard Bank stealing money out of her account, can you credit it) and basically had all her accounts emptied more than once.  

I eventually decided 'sod it', this can't continue - and got her out here.  I went back to SA, cleaned out her flat and am in the process of selling the Life Right.

Luckily I had got her a Parent Holiday visa thingy previously on which she can stay a further 17 months, taken in six month chunks.  But we need to try and make another plan to get her residence...

There is a Parent Visa Lottery - is that what you are referring to above?  Did they enter?  If so, how long did it take?

Big brother is always watching...

I am really sorry for what you are going through. Dementia is difficult for everyone, and being far away just complicates things even further.

Yes, the Visa my in-laws applied for was via an Expression of Interest.

They basically filled out a series of forms to express interest in relocating to NZ permanently. Each year, they select 2,500 applicants from the pool of interested parties, and then you get a few months (i think it was 4) to submit all your documents and obtain medical clearance. Then if successful, they are issued a 10 year permanent resident visa, but theoretically, after 5 years they can apply for full citizenship. 

The EOI took 2 years to be selected (at the end of the two years, they remove your name from the pool, so we just scraped through) and then the actual visa processing can take up to 17 months.

https://www.immigration.govt.nz/visas/parent-resident-visa/

Not sure how the medical might impact your situation.

Ironically, my in-laws came over for december and my wife and her mom had another huge fallout - my MIL is an absolute piece of work, and now she is refusing to move over. What a waste of time and money. I paid $5,800 for that visa.

[davetapson]

19 hours ago, Wayne Potgieter said:

What a waste of time and money. I paid $5,800 for that visa.

Haha - damn, Murphy's Law strikes again.  But maybe the $5.8k is well spent if it keeps her away... 🤣
I should see if I can buy it off you, but that would probably trigger her to come...

Thanks Wayne.  At least it gives some hope.