New Zealand - The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

[Steven Knoetze (sk27)]

8 hours ago, patches said:

or WEF

Makes more sense yes. Definitely pushed the same agenda.
Next to go will be Trudeau....... Same agenda, same outcome.

[hayleyearth]

On 1/19/2023 at 4:29 PM, Steven Knoetze (sk27) said:

If I may ask, what are the dislikes with the way kids are taught?

 

They do no repetitive work.

So they practice (I shouldn't even call it that) something once and then move on so it can stay to be fun and entertaining rather than the child getting use to it and and 'sticking'.

One example: In SA the Pre-schools have end-of-year concerts, where the kids actually act or do a performance of some sorts and they sing the actual songs with someone playing the background music. In NZ the kids just stand around and sing along if they want to to the full song being played. So acting. As if the teachers don't know how to get the kids to listen and follow orders and then remember it to perform it on a certain day. It's shocking actually this comparison. As a toddler and pre-schooler those are still some of my fondest memories.

 

The kids don't have to sit in the certain time in class where everyone is doing maths for instance, they can choose to go build puzzles or do another activity.

 

My sister is a teacher in NZ and she needs to prepare her classes to have these different types of activities available for if the child does not want to do what the teacher want (need) to focus on at that particular time.

 

My daughter is 4 years old, they don't do nursary rymes or 'familiar' songs like we use to do at school repetitively so we remember them, no, here they listen to songs on YouTube and dance like crazy people with no defined moves being taught. She can't sing one English song still. 

 

I'm so so scared of school.

What about the timetables?

[hayleyearth]

On 1/19/2023 at 4:29 PM, Steven Knoetze (sk27) said:

If I may ask, what are the dislikes with the way kids are taught?

 

They do no repetitive work.

So they practice (I shouldn't even call it that) something once and then move on so it can stay to be fun and entertaining rather than the child getting use to it and and 'sticking'.

One example: In SA the Pre-schools have end-of-year concerts, where the kids actually act or do a performance of some sorts and they sing the actual songs with someone playing the background music. In NZ the kids just stand around and sing along if they want to to the full song being played. So acting. As if the teachers don't know how to get the kids to listen and follow orders and then remember it to perform it on a certain day. It's shocking actually this comparison. As a toddler and pre-schooler those are still some of my fondest memories.

 

The kids don't have to sit in the certain time in class where everyone is doing maths for instance, they can choose to go build puzzles or do another activity.

 

My sister is a teacher in NZ and she needs to prepare her classes to have these different types of activities available for if the child does not want to do what the teacher want (need) to focus on at that particular time.

 

My daughter is 4 years old, they don't do nursary rymes or 'familiar' songs like we use to do at school repetitively so we remember them, no, here they listen to songs on YouTube and dance like crazy people with no defined moves being taught. She can't sing one English song still. 

 

I'm so so scared of school.

What about the timetables?

[Wayne Potgieter]

On 1/22/2023 at 2:12 AM, hayleyearth said:

They do no repetitive work.

So they practice (I shouldn't even call it that) something once and then move on so it can stay to be fun and entertaining rather than the child getting use to it and and 'sticking'.

One example: In SA the Pre-schools have end-of-year concerts, where the kids actually act or do a performance of some sorts and they sing the actual songs with someone playing the background music. In NZ the kids just stand around and sing along if they want to to the full song being played. So acting. As if the teachers don't know how to get the kids to listen and follow orders and then remember it to perform it on a certain day. It's shocking actually this comparison. As a toddler and pre-schooler those are still some of my fondest memories.

 

The kids don't have to sit in the certain time in class where everyone is doing maths for instance, they can choose to go build puzzles or do another activity.

 

My sister is a teacher in NZ and she needs to prepare her classes to have these different types of activities available for if the child does not want to do what the teacher want (need) to focus on at that particular time.

 

My daughter is 4 years old, they don't do nursary rymes or 'familiar' songs like we use to do at school repetitively so we remember them, no, here they listen to songs on YouTube and dance like crazy people with no defined moves being taught. She can't sing one English song still. 

 

I'm so so scared of school.

What about the timetables?

Our experience has been incredibly different.

I have two VERY different children academically. My son is smart and lazy, he needs to be "entertained" and constantly supervised or he will drift off of subject and day dream. My Daughter is in the 98th percentile and is managed through the SENCO office at the school. 

Each child has a very different learning path and both schools have done an amazing job of catering for them. They both LOVE school and are learning at a rate that is pleasing to me. Having teachers and an education system that is malleable allows for different approaches with different kids. If my daughter were to be put in a group that moved at the same pace, she would hate school as it would be boring. Inversely, my son would have plenty of opportunity to "hide" within a large group.

I think the teachers are what makes the difference, we have been fortunate in that all of the teachers we have experienced (in particular in Orewa) have been phenomenal.

My kids are fluent in timetables and do lots of songs and creative work. 

Whilst I am not disagreeing with your experience H, I do wonder if thigs are different the older they get. My daughter is now entering year 6 (although technically she is doing year 8 work with her teachers) so they are quite a bit older than yours. Perhaps this is the key difference. Sure, I don't think the NZ system is perfect, but I am positive about it and my children are thriving. My in laws were here a few weeks ago and we were comparing my nephew's education to my children's and I can hand on heart state that (at least for my kids) I am incredibly grateful that they are here. 

[Wayne Potgieter]

On a slightly separate note, but still closely associated with education, I have just been writing a Uni Paper on the Social Progress Index. Its quite a cool idea.

Essentially, it holistically looks at multiple facets of life and assesses what the generation progress is like. Basically, is there forward movement across generations. It then takes this data and measures different countries. So you can see whether your children will live a better life than you did depending on where you live.

South Africa is ranked in Tier 4 (the lowest tier is 6) at number 80 with a score of 69.17 whereas NZ is ranked in Tier 1 at number 12 in the world.

This index takes into account:

• Nutrition and medical care
• Water and sanitation
• Shelter
• Safety
• education
• Access to information
• Health and wellness
• Personal rights
• Freedom
• Access to advanced education
• Inclusiveness

https://www.socialprogress.org/index/global/results

[Steven Knoetze (sk27)]

I think in general, education lately seems to be a one fit, I am glad to hear of the process Wayne described because we are in the same boat with our son and daughter. Yet we also have the older daughter who tracks more like the son in Wayne's example.

I think the "entertaining" educational model is becoming more and more prevalent though. While I understand the times table thing, how relevant is it in the day and age of computers and smartphones. Don't get me wrong, our kids will learn it, even if we have to do it at home. I think education needs more practical subjects though, for one "how to run a household/personal budget", etc.

I also think a lot of education can (and should) happen at home, but with 2 working parents in a household this is perhaps not always happening. It can't only be the schools responsibility surely? Again, our oldest daughters father believes everything should happen at school, including homework(?), and gives zero additional educational attention. and then wonders why she struggles at times.

Selecting the correct school for your individual childs needs is the most important thing I think,

[Wayne Potgieter]

10 hours ago, Steven Knoetze (sk27) said:

I think in general, education lately seems to be a one fit, I am glad to hear of the process Wayne described because we are in the same boat with our son and daughter. Yet we also have the older daughter who tracks more like the son in Wayne's example.

I think the "entertaining" educational model is becoming more and more prevalent though. While I understand the times table thing, how relevant is it in the day and age of computers and smartphones. Don't get me wrong, our kids will learn it, even if we have to do it at home. I think education needs more practical subjects though, for one "how to run a household/personal budget", etc.

I also think a lot of education can (and should) happen at home, but with 2 working parents in a household this is perhaps not always happening. It can't only be the schools responsibility surely? Again, our oldest daughters father believes everything should happen at school, including homework(?), and gives zero additional educational attention. and then wonders why she struggles at times.

Selecting the correct school for your individual childs needs is the most important thing I think,

Our son is now entering Year 9 - the first year of college which I loosely have as Standard 6 in my old dinosaur brain.

He has some optional subjects this year such as Financial Literacy and some technical subjects like food preparation etc. He is quite excited about school this year.

[patches]

Hope all you Auckland dwellers survived the rainstorm yesterday?

We got off lightly with just a bit of garage flooding (which was tragic for me, but overall could be worse).

 

[Steven Knoetze (sk27)]

On 1/27/2023 at 10:25 PM, patches said:

Hope all you Auckland dwellers survived the rainstorm yesterday?

We got off lightly with just a bit of garage flooding (which was tragic for me, but overall could be worse).

 

I heard 220mm in less than 24hrs. Pretty hectic!!!

 

[davetapson]

On 1/28/2023 at 9:25 AM, patches said:

Hope all you Auckland dwellers survived the rainstorm yesterday?

We got off lightly with just a bit of garage flooding (which was tragic for me, but overall could be worse).

 

Same for us - not much damage, just a puddle in the back of the garage where water seeps through the cinderblock wall which is set into the hillside.  No drains or waterproofing, because why would you in a country that turns to mud for six months of the year...?

[davetapson]

On 1/23/2023 at 11:55 AM, Wayne Potgieter said:

Our experience has been incredibly different.

 

Kiwi education is just different.  They seem to absorb knowledge rather than have it 'beaten' into them.

I was beginning to despair about times tables etc. but know at beginning year 8, they know their times tables well enough.  When and how they learned them, I do not know.

I think Kiwis think that the kid will do as well as the kid will do.  They do have quite a lot of extra support in the classrooms (that as long as they are not overwhelmed, depending on who's in the class) that helps your kid where they are struggling.

They don't do pressurizing thing, which is what drives Saffa's mad.  We feel kids should be driven to exceed and when the schools here don't do that, get all upset.  

Personally I'm not completely convinced the Kiwi's are wrong. Which is not a popular opinion.
 

[patches]

16 hours ago, davetapson said:

Kiwi education is just different.  They seem to absorb knowledge rather than have it 'beaten' into them.

I was beginning to despair about times tables etc. but know at beginning year 8, they know their times tables well enough.  When and how they learned them, I do not know.

I think Kiwis think that the kid will do as well as the kid will do.  They do have quite a lot of extra support in the classrooms (that as long as they are not overwhelmed, depending on who's in the class) that helps your kid where they are struggling.

They don't do pressurizing thing, which is what drives Saffa's mad.  We feel kids should be driven to exceed and when the schools here don't do that, get all upset.  

Personally I'm not completely convinced the Kiwi's are wrong. Which is not a popular opinion.
 

And hey, if they don't do well academically, they can always go into the trades... where the real money is 😅

[davetapson]

Yeah, I think that's exactly it. Here, if you are not academic, there are other options - trades, police, army, stuff that is no longer an option in SA.

And, as they say, chicks dig Tradies... 🙂

[Wayne Potgieter]

Positives about Cyclones....

 

Was supposed to head to Melbourne for a conference today. Wont be going. YAY! was totally not looking forward to it.

Had a six hour power outage, my kids went mental. Told them about load shedding and their faces had all the colour drained from it. Guessing they wont want to go back to SA.

 

[patches]

35 minutes ago, Wayne Potgieter said:

Positives about Cyclones....

 

Was supposed to head to Melbourne for a conference today. Wont be going. YAY! was totally not looking forward to it.

Had a six hour power outage, my kids went mental. Told them about load shedding and their faces had all the colour drained from it. Guessing they wont want to go back to SA.

 

Why don't you like Melbourne? Is it the excess of man-buns or the fact that people in the CBD dress like they're going to a GQ or Vogue cover shoot? hahaha 😉

Just kidding, but I never felt "cool enough" to walk around the street in Melbourne 😅

As for the load shedding, unlucky on that one, but like you say, puts load shedding in perspective.

My Mom arrived from JHB last Friday, and I thin the fact that there's no load-shedding has been the biggest 1st world experience for her so far (granted with this weather we haven't done more than the Matakana Markets and a walk down to Milford beach).

She keeps stressing when I leave lights on and I have to remind her that they're LED's and there's no load shedding, so no need to live by candle light 😅

[Wayne Potgieter]

Just now, patches said:

Why don't you like Melbourne? Is it the excess of man-buns or the fact that people in the CBD dress like they're going to a GQ or Vogue cover shoot? hahaha 😉

Just kidding, but I never felt "cool enough" to walk around the street in Melbourne 😅

As for the load shedding, unlucky on that one, but like you say, puts load shedding in perspective.

My Mom arrived from JHB last Friday, and I thin the fact that there's no load-shedding has been the biggest 1st world experience for her so far (granted with this weather we haven't done more than the Matakana Markets and a walk down to Milford beach).

She keeps stressing when I leave lights on and I have to remind her that they're LED's and there's no load shedding, so no need to live by candle light 😅

Oh, absolutely nothing wrong with Melbourne. One of my favourite cities.

Plenty wrong with being couped up in a corporate office for 12 hours a day for 3 days and not enjoying Melbourne.