Eldron Posted March 31, 2016 Share Even though I don't agree with branding these frames like the "real" thing, I can promise you any one of these would get you to the finish line of the Argus in exactly the same time as the "real" thing. That certainly is a brave statement. Of the ~100 "non branded eastern" frames I've seen about 80% are poorly finished, have rough edges, the internals look like spaghetti junction, paint work is nasty etc. The other 20% are somewhere between messy and perfect. My biggest issue is that we just don't know how good/bad they are. I've seen chinese frames that look *** last thousands of km and ones that look lovely crack in multiple places within 1000km. It's just random. One would hope that "branded" frames have tons of R&D, awesome quality control, the right choice of fiber in the right places and tons of testing prior to manufacture. Whether this all happens and if it results in a frame that is substantially better than it's chinese counterpart is random. I'd say that branded frames TEND to be better but not all branded frames are better than non branded and not all non branded frames are crap. It's an urrr crap shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat2forLife Posted March 31, 2016 Share Different strokes. My crappy Chinarello has been through numerous Trans Baviaans's, Trans Karoo's, plenty other races and a few wins. One or two crashes as well. Not a hint of a problem. If you end up being faster than me, it won't have anything to do with the bike, or that my $500 frame weighs 50g more than your $2000 frame. Fair enough. We obviously seem to disagree on this matter, so instead of us fighting about it and making enemies, let's just agree to disagree and not argue about it anymore. Good with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldron Posted March 31, 2016 Share Fair enough. We obviously seem to disagree on this matter, so instead of us fighting about it and making enemies, let's just agree to disagree and not argue about it anymore. Good with you? Only ~500 posts. Blerry newbies coming in here and smooshing us with their logic and calm. It's people like you that give thehub a bad name. (pre emptive Friday strike :devil: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat2forLife Posted March 31, 2016 Share Only ~500 posts. Blerry newbies coming in here and smooshing us with their logic and calm. It's people like you that give thehub a bad name. (pre emptive Friday strike :devil: ) Pfff! That's only coz I've had a handful of pain killers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gummibear Posted March 31, 2016 Share Even us down here on the pointy end of Africa have had contact from Andrew Love at Specialized regarding fakes listed in our Classifieds a good while back. They're on the ball and I applaud their proactive approach, but are certainly facing a huge challenge in squashing all suppliers and channels. The issue of counterfeits (across all brands) and the muddy understanding some have of it continually surprises me. The simple fact is that counterfeit products (like some of the examples others have posted here) are illegal. Some may be better quality than others, but if it carries a brand name illegitimately it's not a question of ethics, morals or performance vs. the real thing... it's downright illegal.That's why this thread was started. https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/130052-fake-counterfeit-bikes-components-news-and-how-to-spot-them/page-1?hl=fakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOOK695 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Seeing that the talk is focusing on safety of chinese frames in general, how many of you guys would trust a chinese carbon fork as this is probably the most critical part of a frameset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOOK695 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Nothing to do with safety, and getting pretty tired of big business trying to convince people of it. Even Chinese frames have to adhere to standards: CEN TestsEN14781 Standards JAPAN JIS Standards None of the Chinarellos I've owned, that my wife have owned, or my friends, or the carbon wheels, seatpost or bars, have ever failed or hinted at failing. Its all about protecting the Randellas.Are these standards the same as used by the major brands? And the testing certificate shown by the chinese, is it worth the paper; how do I know as a potential buyer that every frame adheres to the same standard as the tested frame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAD4 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Does my Specialist Humpstumper qualify as OEM?Buckle up, we have a live one here.../ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJ Posted March 31, 2016 Share Are these standards the same as used by the major brands? And the testing certificate shown by the chinese, is it worth the paper; how do I know as a potential buyer that every frame adheres to the same standard as the tested frame?How do I know as a potential buyer that every Specialized adheres to the same standard as the tested frame? Same logic applies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOOK695 Posted March 31, 2016 Share How do I know as a potential buyer that every Specialized adheres to the same standard as the tested frame?Same logic applies.Yes and no. Can you imagine a frame/fork failing in the USA because of bad workmanship? The law suits would be huge. With the chinese there is no real recourse, you're on your own. The chinese make some nice looking frames and there lots of great reviews, but there is a but....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gummibear Posted March 31, 2016 Share How do I know as a potential buyer that every Specialized adheres to the same standard as the tested frame? Same logic applies.There are independent testers in the bike industry and that's where faults are picked up. There has just been a recall on ENVE Disc forks because of some of their findings[emoji106] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOOK695 Posted March 31, 2016 Share There are independent testers in the bike industry and that's where faults are picked up.There has just been a recall on ENVE Disc forks because of some of their findings[emoji106]And a lot of people were surprised to find out the forks are made in Taiwan???? Edited March 31, 2016 by LOOK695 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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